as you all probably know its a year since the bombs went off in London. when i think back to that day i realise how luky i was. i was going on holiday with one of my friends from school we were going to Paris for the weekend and we had the option of travling by coach or by eurostar. we desided to go by coach insted of eurostar but if we had gone by eurostar we would have got the early morning train to London and been in London for just before 9 and we would have been on the underground when the bombs went off. i consider my self lucky that i dint go to London but i went by coach from Hartlepool. the only thing is that i just cant get over is how close i could have came to death. my thoughts today are with those who where injured or the famlys who lost someone but it made the UK sit up and tale notise as well as brining us all closer which is a good thing.
I was surprised today. The humanity out there was unbelievable! We all went and stood outside the offices in the street. All the other offices did the same and the traffic stopped in the street. We held the 2 minutes silence with pride, some even with tears in their eyes. It was very moving. I thought of my loved ones and how glad i am to be alive. Those poor families and survivors. My heart goes out to them.
I can remember hearing the news on Virgin radio as the bombs went off, the confusion about what was happening, an electric malfunction that had started a fire in the underground turned into a bomb, then another, and a bus, how many bombs were there, what was happenning ? I was sitting at my desk, with my headphones glued to my ears and tears in my eyes... It was as bad as 9/11 and almost as bad as the industrial accident that happened here in Toulouse a short while later that left half the city with no windows and a 100m wide crater where the fertilizer factory had been... All those who suffered from last years bombings, directly or indirectly are in my thoughts and prayers today.
... no one ever held a two minutes silence for an IRA bombing. you don't get that sort of thing becoming an annual tradition for a fuel depot exploding. are we really saying that a 'terrorist attack' in london in 2005 can shake the british populace so strongly that they must commemorate it in the same way they mark the deaths of two generations of britons, on rememberance day? now, i don't mean to downplay the lives that were cut short or damaged by the bombs on the tube, but this is bloody ENGLAND we're talking about here. the luftwaffe flattens some one's shop during the blitz, and he'll still be there in the rubble the next day selling a pack of cigarettes with a tournequette on the stump that used to be his arm. the police aren't allowed guns here (well, they didn't USED to be) and when the IRA was bombing the crap out of london on a regular basis, the unarmed police would give chase to IRA terrorists who were armed with, and using, sub machine guns and assault rifles. now, there's a national badge of shame that the UK is nothing but a puppet for the US, with the hand of the collective republican party up the anus of the british political system, dictating your policy in a 'war on terror'. is it a coincidence that what is a minor 'act of terrorism' must be commemorated in such a way? let's face it, the only decent response to this mess was when the mayor of london went to address parliment after the bombing and took the tube to get there. the rest has been a calculated design to foster and encourage the fear of terrorism to keep the electorate voting for the current regime, and justify that regime's servilitude.
the thing that shook britain was that we were not ready people say there was no warning when there was 9/11 was the UK's warning. the bombs changed a affected a lot of peoples lives. we must rember everyone who has been killed in all terosit attacts thoughout the world no mater where and we must rember the 2 world wars if we foget about the past we dont know where we are going. we must learn from the past and learn not to make the same stuid mistakes. the UK may be an island but we canot go on thinking that things hapaning around the world do not affect us. in the worlds of Walt disney "its a small world" and we must rember.
I'm not sure how much of it has been manipulated by the media for this particular incedent, and how much of it is geuinely what people feel they should do for these circumstances in light of the recent, perceived, terrorist uprising - which in itself is very much a media thing. Still, I'm not sure that it matters, a murder is a murder whether it's Hitler, the IRA, George Bush or some deluded crusaders who think they're Islamic. If it makes people feel better, or makes a few more people think about it a bit then I don't think it can be all bad. It's worse when it become routine and the affected locals stop bothering about it.
Roman Kalik (5:42:33 PM): I agree with most everything you said. Also, this is *not* comparable to 9/1. garnrag (5:43:13 PM): anything you disagreed with Roman Kalik (5:44:02 PM): While I was growing up, there was a year when events like the bombings in London happened every day. Bang, bang, bang, like clockwork. Roman Kalik (5:45:15 PM): And 9/11 shook me. This just had me shrugging and saying 'just another one'. garnrag (5:45:32 PM): post to that effect? Roman Kalik (5:46:38 PM): I didn't disagree, as such, though I think there's more to this memorial than just overplaying for collective effect. Roman Kalik (5:47:45 PM): I can't post right now, but will on sunday. Or just post what I just wrote for me. Roman Kalik (5:49:33 PM): As for the memorial, it's in part the reversal of roles between the US and Britian. People have been waiting for "our 9/11", sick as that is. garnrag (5:50:32 PM): mm. well, i think there's some degree of just waiting for the shoe to drop. garnrag (5:50:40 PM): 'we're their allies... we're likely going to get it next' garnrag (5:50:49 PM): though, in truth, spain got it. garnrag (5:50:56 PM): and their people reacted worse than the brits have Roman Kalik (5:51:56 PM): Where once the colonies shaped themselves according to Great Britian, GB now shapes itself by US policies and culture. garnrag (5:52:05 PM): funny that. garnrag (5:52:10 PM): even in countries where they hate us, garnrag (5:52:12 PM): they love our fucking levis. Roman Kalik (5:52:38 PM): Point. garnrag (5:53:15 PM): posting this now. Roman Kalik (5:53:23 PM): And now I must go. garnrag (5:53:28 PM): k
Go read Michael Moore's "dude, where's my country" It's originally about the US and 9/11 but it still holds a few valid points. And it's good reading.
I remember when the bombs hit, I was in the Gaeltacht*, specifically, Achill, a really small island of the west coast of Ireland. Being the Gaeltacht, we weren't allowed mobiles. There were no newspapers etc. All the teachers could tell us was that there had been some bombs in London on the tube. My favourite aunt and uncle live in London along with their small child. My aunt has a small disability, which means she can't drive. She uses public transport all the time. It was hell waitng to get back to the teach** so I could ring home. Hell. I was SO scared. I was literally just crying. Thank GOD, they were ok. THANK GOD. Never been so relieved in my life. My utmost sympathies to anyone who was hurt, emotionally or physically. *For those of you who aren't Irish, (ie the majority), its like a live in summer camp where you have classes in Irish some of the time, sports/activities some of the time, and traditional Irish dances every night. You also have to speak Irish 24/7 or you get sent home. **house where I was staying.
It's been a year already? It only seems like a few months ago when I heard the news. And yes, thankfully you took the other route.
[quote:e626bdc8f6="peapod_j"]the thing that shook britain was that we were not ready people say there was no warning when there was 9/11 was the UK's warning. [/quote:e626bdc8f6] So many people say this....why didn't 9/11 warn Britain. But it did. Why were the emergencey response units so fast? How come the investigation was underway so quickly? We were hearing reports of leads days afterwards. With 9/11 it was months before anything seemed to happen to attempt to explain what happened. Why was there a terror practise drill in the station just before the bombs went off. Every hospital in the UK has detailed instructions and protocol to follow in such an instance and 9/11 was the warning for this. Britain its self was very prepared. That said. I am with Roman here. It is 'just another bomb'. To the majority of British though it is a bomb in their own capital, in their own back garden. For most British it has always been a bomb in the Middle East, a Bomb in SE Asia, lots of bombs going off around the world while they sit quietly on their island at their dinner watching it on the news. That's why Britain has made such a big deal out of it. For everyone else though, it is, as Roman said, just another bomb.
There are differences between the IRA (and least we forget the numberous loyalist bombings) and the july 7/7. On the whole N.Ireland terrorists gave warnings, there main aim was (weather or not you agree with they're methods) to make political points, not to kill as many people as possible. While the 7/7 bomders main aim was to make political point BY killing as many people in britian. Also the N.Ireland terrorist attacks where generally on much smaller scale- and they're frenency took away from they're media charm. The Omar bombing was remembered a year on, and few of the other big ones.
And you know, one year ago, to this day, politicians were being as mature as they ever had been. The London Bombings were horrible, made even worse by the fact that these people were UK residents, not some foreign terror that comes into our country to wage war. That is what was so harrowing, the fact that we could not imagine the "bad guys" being in little rooms in Iraq, plotting attacks against Britain. They were in this country, being educated in our schools, and doing our jobs. And yet they still thought it would be an excellent idea to kill a lot of innocent people, all in the name of their God and hatred towards the West, the part of the world they were part of.
very valid point about the fact that the IRA would give warnings. that's probably the most singular difference. still... i think this is a political rememberance. it's almost like the outpouring of 'good will' and relief pledges after the asian tsunami and the new orleans flood. these are natural disasters, not man made. everyone's horrified by the fact that there's nothing that could be done to stop them from happening. so we get month after month of media coverage. ironicly, because there was plenty that *could* have been done to mitigate the damage of katrina, that became a political thing. but, its curious that despite all the loss of life and property, we don't see anything on the same scale for the victims of the iraq war. US policy says you can't even take a death toll for civilian casualties. and remember afganistan? the american media basicly abandoned that before we even invaded iraq. don't think about the cost of life or even the cost of equipment to go to war. that might reflect badly upon the policy makers. instead, think of how tragic it is that wind, rain, and water can strike without warning. instead, think of how important it is to make sure that there isn't another terrorist attack. keep people worried and scared. remember how frightened you were on july 7th? Keep that in your mind when you go to the polls. don't let the mass voting body have time to think about the motives of terrorists. tell them they hate us because of our freedom. don't let them forget that terrorism is real, make sure they know that the war that's going on is a necessary fight. but don't let them worry about it, make sure they focus on natural disasters instead. i dunno. before september 11th, a tube bombing or gassing didn't get this kind of attention. remember the gassing in tokyo? how many years ago was that? when was the last time you even heard anything about that doomsday cult? did they just go away? funny, i don't remember there being a 'war on terrorism' then.
There were the bombs and there was that brazilian kid who got shot just for looking shifty. I wonder when everyone realises that our lives belong to the ones who love us and that taking a random life is a terrible thing to do.
The gassing in Tokyo was a big deal in Japan, there was quite a lot of stuff about it on TV when I lived there even years afterwards. They're very like the British in a way, on their isolated island, and always thought of terrorists as being from somewhere else. So when a home-grown nutjob attacked with poisonous gas they were quite shocked. Murders outside organised crime are pretty rare in Japan, so this was quite huge.
[quote:92b77214ea="Saccharissa"]There were the bombs and there was that brazilian kid who got shot just for looking shifty. I wonder when everyone realises that our lives belong to the ones who love us and that taking a random life is a terrible thing to do.[/quote:92b77214ea]We've had thousands of years to realise that, it doesn't appear anyone really has.
I think when the bombs went off britain istantly thought it was someone from a difrent country and not home grown the thing that realy shook us was that they where owr first suiside bombers on mainlnd uk. even when i was in newcasle waiting to get my train to my granparents in hartlepool you could feal the fear and people where looking at me and my frend stangly because we had bags with us and they where scared that newcastle was going to be next im so glad that my friend and i did not go by eurostar and it feals like only yesterday the bombs went off. britain as a country has changed not the country but the people. we now look at our fellow country man with surspition. we must rember to never foget what our fellow person can do but also rember that the people who did those horable things a year ago where only a small few and not everyone thinks like that.
Peapod, until those bombing the British people lived under the blissful belief that all immigrants are good people. Who come to Britian because they want to be good productive British people. You forgot that some countries are so completely and utterly ruined, that just about any alternative is better. And you also forgot that they might just bring the hate they were taught 'back home', to you. They certainly brought a few of those who preached it along. It's difficult to shake old... I was going to use 'beliefs', but 'indoctrinizations' fits the bill much better here. But yes, not everyone thinks like that. Very few people think like that, or at least very few people who think like that cross the barrier between thinking and doing. Also, weren't (and still aren't) the Irish a part of the British whole? I mean, so they didn't blow themselves up, right? They just left the bombs. So the man with a bag analogy isn't the very best one, as it was applicable with the IRA as well. Granted, the IRA gave warnings. So you knew when to look out. And where. Knowing the when and the where gives people a sense of security. That's the main difference here. With suicide bombers, you have none. That's a shock, I agree.
Well I was in Germany having just left England and London, via Luton for those playing at home. WHile it was a shock, I saw a lot of the coverage on BBC World (the only english programming available, damn German dubbing) and the coverage did seem a might over the top... It was kind of like 9/11 where the media initially said over 10,000 people had died when the actual figure was much less than that. I'm not saying it wasn't terrible but the reporting did tend to hyper-inflate the event and its impact. Meaning that the reaction was over-inflated and the ongoing remembrance of it is over-inflated... (I could go into the science of why first impressions last but I won't).
Roman meant to say "still aren't, [i:48f1b13e67]in part[/i:48f1b13e67]," up there. This is important, as saying that the Irish are all British is grounds for a pummeling.
[quote:02d7e63992="Ba"]Roman meant to say "still aren't, [i:02d7e63992]in part[/i:02d7e63992]," up there. This is important, as saying that the Irish are all British is grounds for a pummeling.[/quote:02d7e63992] A big pummeling. From Guiness fuelled leprechauns. :axe: No, I was/am sure it was just a typo.
[quote:65e1b11fd1="peapod_j"]I think when the bombs went off britain istantly thought it was someone from a difrent country and not home grown the thing that realy shook us was that they where owr first suiside bombers on mainlnd uk... britain as a country has changed not the country but the people. we now look at our fellow country man with surspition. [/quote:65e1b11fd1] I would roundly dispute the notion that 'Britain instantly thought it was someone from a different country'. Any intelligent and politically aware person knew about the way our government's policies on terrorism have been fomenting radicalism in this country, and continue to do so. There has been a rise in the prominence of neo-nazis here as well as in Islamic militants. [quote:65e1b11fd1="Roman_K"]Peapod, until those bombing the British people lived under the blissful belief that all immigrants are good people. Who come to Britian because they want to be good productive British people... [/quote:65e1b11fd1] Roman... Where the hell did you get that from? The topic of immigration is one that causes much heated debate in this country because there is such a wide divide in public opinion. A large portion (perhaps the majority) of the British population believes almost the opposite of what you said; that immigrants are nothing but violence-prone, money-grubbing layabouts, who have come here to take our jobs, our food, our money etc. Many who hold these views do not distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers. There are probably a handful with the unqualified belief that all immigrants are good people. I think the majority of the rest, though, believe that immigrants are just ordinary people who had a reason for wanting to leave their own country and chose to come here. I'm English, and I had friends in London on the day the bombs went off, whose safety was not confirmed for days, in some cases. I was worried about them, as anyone would be. I was also impressed but not surprised by the way Londoners carried on as normal. This is the only way to respond, in my opinion. Maybe I think that because I'm English, I don't know. However, I find irritating the way we now seem to respond to the majority of mass deaths with minutes of silence, [i:65e1b11fd1]especially[/i:65e1b11fd1] if we are expected to do this on anniversaries and not just at the time. We have Remembrance Day when we hold silence to remember [i:65e1b11fd1]all[/i:65e1b11fd1] the [i:65e1b11fd1]millions[/i:65e1b11fd1] of deaths from every war in which we have been involved since WWI. I feel this should be enough. Perhaps it is because I grew up with the fear of terrorism - and, as has been pointed out, it is by no means a new thing in the UK to fear suicide bombers - and experienced many bomb scares, and would regularly see headlines about actual killings, that I do see this as just another bomb. We will never deal with the problems that caused this event to happen if we react with fear and demonisation.
It's definitely wrong to say that there was no suspicion before the 7/7 bombings or even before the 9/11 ones. There has always been suspicion.
Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with minute-long silences, though I didn't adhere to it myself I can see how it would be beneficial to some people, especially the ones that lost people in whatever event their holding the silence for. I don't think they'll continue holding a minute's silence every year for the last London Bombings, it will more than likely be a one off thing for the first year. I always think of remembrance day to be a bit of a religious occasion. Though I know it was originally to commemorate the end of World War 1, it's always connected with crosses and going to church, the Queen and such, which is fine in itslef but seems a world apart from modern times. I think for the most part younger people don't feel much of a connection with Remembrance Day, Remembrance Sunday, and wouldn't feel that it was much comfort to them to go to church, and/or buy a poppy, in regards to terrorist bombings unless they happened to be religious and Christian.
I have always thought of Remembrance Day - as distinct from Remembrance Sunday - as being very much a civic affair. I can see that a Remembrance service is irrelevant to a lot of people, but holding silence and reading out a poem, perhaps preceded or followed by a discussion of the impact of warfare (which is what used to happen when I was at school) doesn't seem to bear much relation to church to me. But I can see how the events and the ceremony might become muddled together giving people the sense of it being purely a religious affair.
When exactly did it sudenly become a two minutes silence for these things anyway? I have to say, it's a ridiculous thing to have. For years, we had a one minute silence to rememebr MILLIONS of deaths. Now, we've having 2 minute silences to remember tens of deaths? To me, it's not right. Yes, it's a sad event, but it's not really comparable to something like september 11th, or even the tsunami. That was a large loss of life. Really, it's only cause it's close to home that it causes a stir. To use an example, a few years ago I was playing pool during a lunch break at college. The TV was on. It interupted the broadcast for a special bulletin. We all turned to see what it was. The first words were "there has been a bombing in Israel" And then no one watched any more. No one cared. People are always getting blown up there, and it's a whole other country. So yeah, people only care cause it's local. People call it "our 9/11". What a load of crap. It's nothing like that at all. It's not like London's never been bombed before. And 9/11 is another level entirely. On the point of Brits loving immigrants... no. Fuelled by the Sun newspaper, the people of low socio economic class and the elderly hate them. as grace says, they're seen as evil minded, job stealing, scrounging bombers. Much like the people that buy the Sun and hold those opinions really. Except for the job stealing and the bombing.
[quote:fce759aa92="Orrdos"]Much like the people that buy the Sun and hold those opinions really. Except for the job stealing and the bombing.[/quote:fce759aa92] And that Warnie* is a great bloke who was just hard done by the papparazzi, and all that sex and smsing never really happened. *For all those in countries outside the cricketing nations of the world loook here
I generalized, and frankly was saying bullshit, Grace. Sorry. You see, I was reading recently on how some people in Britian have taken 'being sensitive to Muslim beliefs' just a tad too far. To the point where Muslims in Britian were, in the relevant region, either scratching their heads in puzzlement or downright laughing. I guess that stuck in my mind as I don't recall anything of this sort happening outside predominantly Muslim countries, and even then I refer to those that are, by and large, theocracies. An example. I guess the sentiment stuck to mind, though thinking for a whole minute would have made me realize just how stupid that generalization was. edit: Because Grace does not have an n in her name, and because sentences I decide not to write should be removed fully, not in part.
So if Muslim children should not be exposed to stories about pigs because they are not allowed to eat pork, then presumably no children (except possibly those of any undiscovered primitive tribes who haven't got the message about cannibalism) should be exposed to stories about human beings?
[quote:4369ae83f7="Pixel"]So if Muslim children should not be exposed to stories about pigs because they are not allowed to eat pork, then presumably no children (except possibly those of any undiscovered primitive tribes who haven't got the message about cannibalism) should be exposed to stories about human beings?[/quote:4369ae83f7] Well no, we don't eat human flesh because it's "not right", but not because humans are "unclean" or whatever the proper term is... But yes, I do see the ridiculous side of the whole pig thing... And rabbits are also considered "not kosher" (splg ?) by the jewish religion from what I understood, should I avoid talking to you Roman ? I heard that Winnie the pooh (the movie) was banned in Saudi Arabia, if I remember correctly because of piglet, maybe that's what started the teachers' over reaction ? But then the Saudis do tend to go a bit over the top about things like that don't they (or at least the governing bodies)...
My experience is that government bodies always tend to go a tad over the top, leaving all the normal people thinking, "What the fuck?"
No, governments can make people think that all the time. They don't neccessarily have to go over the top to do so.
Yay for targets! I, personally, can't see a case for the museum. Advertising for minorities is always going to end in trouble. Those in the majority will say "why can't I do it?" and those in the minority will say, "what is so bad about this job that they don't want a majority person to do it?" On a lighter note, I found this nearby on the same site.
