Had a rather unexpected surprise when I signed onto AIM this evening: Aunty Jangle (4:59:08 PM): Hey garner long time no see garnrag (4:59:24 PM): lord, what the fuck do you want, kid? Aunty Jangle (4:59:38 PM): To make amends, it's been like a year now. garnrag (5:00:56 PM): man, i'm not even able to pretend to be nice to you. amends aren't really the issue here, you burned up any chance at amends, and i for one hold long grudges garnrag (5:01:08 PM): best way to make amends is to stay gone. Aunty Jangle (5:01:38 PM): You really still mad? Sorry. Aunty Jangle (5:01:49 PM): Thought we might have reached "look back on it and laugh" stage. garnrag (5:01:51 PM): not mad as such, just not inclined to show the least bit of forgiveness garnrag (5:02:11 PM): i gotta ask you though, WHY do you keep tryin? garnrag (5:02:58 PM): you've been told you used up your last chance, and yet you stilled try to get in our good graces? Why? we're not sitting on any magical secret to happiness or anything, so what gives Aunty Jangle (5:03:01 PM): I'm not trying, i just wanted to say hi. Aunty Jangle (5:03:29 PM): Anyway, nice to have a clean slate. I was just thinking about last summer. garnrag (5:03:52 PM): can't fault you there, i suppose. a clean slate is a refreshing thing to have. let me ask you though, how old are you? Aunty Jangle (5:04:19 PM): 17 now. Aunty Jangle (5:04:48 PM): Before you say my age on the forum was 10 years older because they wouldn't let under 18s join. And i wanted ot keep the 89. Aunty Jangle (5:05:00 PM): Don't ask why, i'm a bit weird with numbers. garnrag (5:05:06 PM): heh, no worries garnrag (5:05:09 PM): but listen, Aunty Jangle (5:05:35 PM): Bit of age old wisdom coming my way? *settles* garnrag (5:06:38 PM): when i was a teenager, i screwed up plenty of relationships with people to the point where it wasn't really possible to repair them. ten years down the road, those people are complete strangers. i've got a long memory, and can still remember what happened back in highschool, but i just have to kind of hope that they've forgotten. Aunty Jangle (5:07:52 PM): Haha, when i was 14ish i sort of realised i was a bit of a twat and kinda changed. Luckily i had a better chance of repairing relationships than you did. Things are pretty swell. Aunty Jangle (5:08:33 PM): God that time on the forum was so mental, it escalated so quickly. And then the fact we got a mod within the week everyone moved, the irony. garnrag (5:09:08 PM): worked out pretty well for us, i must say. if that mod had shown up a week earlier, we wouldn't have our current boards. Aunty Jangle (5:10:03 PM): Is life treating you well Garner? garnrag (5:10:29 PM): i suppose so. Aunty Jangle (5:11:26 PM): Just think, if i hadn't made that thread we could have been sipping Gin and Tonics together at the club house. garnrag (5:11:57 PM): first off, i don't drink, secondly which of several threads you made are you thinking of? Aunty Jangle (5:12:16 PM): The original and classic "release date" one. garnrag (5:12:39 PM): the particulars of such a thread have blissfully slipped my mind, i'm afraid Aunty Jangle (5:12:47 PM): I still haven't bought thud yet actually, i was waiting for paperback and i haven't got around to getting it yet. Aunty Jangle (5:13:02 PM): Any good? garnrag (5:13:21 PM): it's not bad. miles better than monstrous regiment Aunty Jangle (5:13:53 PM): Yeah I'm still not sure why that book didn't click with me. garnrag (5:14:40 PM): maybe because it was rubbish? Aunty Jangle (5:15:04 PM): Don't let Pterry hear you say that. But yeah, kinda boring. Aunty Jangle (5:15:56 PM): Luckily he followed it with going postal, I gotta read that again some time. garnrag (5:16:33 PM): no time like the present, as they sa garnrag (5:16:34 PM): say Aunty Jangle (5:17:10 PM): I haven't read in ages i feel ashamed, gotta read a book on the paris commune at the moment though for history coursework. garnrag (5:17:50 PM): uh huh? so you're looking for any old distraction to put that off for a while, i assume? Aunty Jangle (5:18:23 PM): I can do that right up until the night it's due, best to get stuck in i feel. Although.... Aunty Jangle (5:21:04 PM): See you Garner. Nice chatting garnrag (5:21:22 PM): please don't make it a habbit. Aunty Jangle (5:21:34 PM): Open your heart Garner garnrag (5:21:57 PM): no thanks, man. Aunty Jangle (5:22:24 PM): No sweat partner. Aunty Jangle signed off at 5:22:26 PM.
Bah, come on garner, open your heart... **plays with chainsaw** I'll help you if you like ! Boy, some people just don't take no for an answer do they ? I wasn't on the old boards, but I have heard of this guy before, sounds like a true limestone Troll in the desert, that one... :?
Garner says: help Roman K says: What's the problem? Garner says: jaunty angle Roman K says: No. No. Nononono! Garner says: yeah, fucker's AIMing me Roman K says: What the hell does she want? Garner says: it's a he, isn't it? and appearantly to make amends Roman K says: Fairly certain it's a she, at least from the avatars. And tell him/her to fuck off. Some bridges, not only do they stay burned, they weren't even built in the first place. Garner says: Aunty Jangle (4:59:08 PM): Hey garner long time no see garnrag (4:59:24 PM): lord, what the fuck do you want, kid? Aunty Jangle (4:59:38 PM): To make amends, it's been like a year now. garnrag (5:00:56 PM): man, i'm not even able to pretend to be nice to you. amends aren't really the issue here, you burned up any chance at amends, and i for one hold long grudges garnrag (5:01:08 PM): best way to Garner says: garnrag (5:01:08 PM): best way to make amends is to stay gone. Aunty Jangle (5:01:38 PM): You really still mad? Sorry. Aunty Jangle (5:01:49 PM): Thought we might have reached "look back on it and laugh" stage. garnrag (5:01:51 PM): not mad as such, just not inclined to show the least bit of forgiveness garnrag (5:02:11 PM): i gotta ask you though, WHY do you keep tryin? Garner says: garnrag (5:02:58 PM): you've been told you used up your last chance, and yet you stilled try to get in our good graces? Why? we're not sitting on any magical secret to happiness or anything, so what gives Aunty Jangle (5:03:01 PM): I'm not trying, i just wanted to say hi. Roman K says: Aaaah! Roman K says: This is fucking internet stalking, it is! Garner says: now now Garner says: it's been a year man Garner says: anyway, full transcript's up on the boards now Roman K says: So what if it's been a year? Why the heck is she back, trying this kind of thing? Garner says: pretty sure it's a he, man, and he said he wanted a clean slate Garner says: check the transcript Roman K says: She's either stupid or mentally unstable. Or both. Garner says: i think he proved it was stupid beyond any reasonable doubt last time, but i wouldn't rule out mentally unstable as well Roman K says: So he wants a clean slate, and? And what gives with the 'just saying hi' bit towards the end? This kinda looks like his idea of a joke. Garner says: *Shrug* Garner says: post on the boards man Garner says: boards, capiche? Roman K says: Or we're dealing with someone who has even worse social skills than mine. Someone who thinks we're friends if we shout at him and tell him to go away. Roman K says: I'm at home, so no posting for me for now. Maybe later this week. Roman K says: Anyway, ban him for good measure and move on. Roman K says: And post this convo up, too. Saves me time later, and it may end up irrelevant by then. Garner says: i think it'd work better as a tripod strip, what with the inability for you to realize the git was a guy, not a gal. but okay, you're the boss. Garner says: well, not boss, as such, but whatever
[quote:3d80b7fe99="Katcal"]Bah, come on garner, open your heart... **plays with chainsaw** I'll help you if you like ! Boy, some people just don't take no for an answer do they ? I wasn't on the old boards, but I have heard of this guy before, sounds like a true limestone Troll in the desert, that one... :?[/quote:3d80b7fe99] i'd hardly call him a troll, or at least not the sort that bombarded our old board with bumped topics and stuff. it was more like... dude didn't realize that by annoying us, we'd be annoyed with him. sort of some failure to realize that other people were independant sentient beings who did not have to follow his own desires for how the universe might take shape. anyway, i aint remotely inclined to say we should welcome such a such-and-such back with open arms and a clean slate, but i also don't think i should be making such decisions on my own. hence the thread.
[quote:5402b6fb05="Garner"][quote:5402b6fb05="Katcal"]Bah, come on garner, open your heart... **plays with chainsaw** I'll help you if you like ! Boy, some people just don't take no for an answer do they ? I wasn't on the old boards, but I have heard of this guy before, sounds like a true limestone Troll in the desert, that one... :?[/quote:5402b6fb05] i'd hardly call him a troll, or at least not the sort that bombarded our old board with bumped topics and stuff. it was more like... dude didn't realize that by annoying us, we'd be annoyed with him. sort of some failure to realize that other people were independant sentient beings who did not have to follow his own desires for how the universe might take shape. [/quote:5402b6fb05] No, I did mean troll rather in the Pratchettian way; big, slow and thick, and in this case, probably metaphorically high on Slab*. Also funnily a propos how it's not easy to tell the gender of a troll (see Monstrous Regiment ) * Edit : not that I mean it's actually consuming drugs, just in a natural delusional state
It was less than a year wasn't it, more like 10 or 11 months surely? Anyway, even if it was, a year just isn't that long.
I might be boo'd, but really, I don't see the point in holding grudges, especially ones over the Internet.
I'm in two minds over this - I've just been checking, and Jaunty's last post on the old board (at the end of October last year) was: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Jaunty Angle: yeah so i kinda disappearead for a while, is that mod still around. did anyone come back. what' been happening kinda stuff? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The question about the mod concerns me a little - did he/she want to know whether the problems were under control, or whether he/she could have freedom to be a problem again? However, we [i:556120350d]do[/i:556120350d] have mods - and therefore can stomp on him/her if necessary - I don't go for the idea of a clean slate - but maybe if it is made clear that he/she is automatically on "Last Official Warning" right from the start - one strike and out - it might work. If the age given in the conversation with Garner is correct (of which we have no proof, of course) then he/she might have matured a little - then I would ask "Can any member of this board put their hand on their heart and say with total truth that at no time in their mid-teens did they succeed in making a total arsehole of themselves?" I certainly couldn't!
All teenagers are losers and dumb and I hate them. But in all seriousness: I don't think the teenager thing is that relevant. I'm the same age as Jaunty, and I didn't go around making an arsehole of myself on message boards when I was 16. Well. Not intentionally, at least. I also don't get why, if he wants a clean slate, he doesn't just go elsewhere.
[quote:ee29c2b4af="chrisjordan"]All teenagers are losers and dumb and I hate them. But in all seriousness: I don't think the teenager thing is that relevant. I'm the same age as Jaunty, and I didn't go around making an arsehole of myself on message boards when I was 16. Well. Not intentionally, at least. I also don't get why, if he wants a clean slate, he doesn't just go elsewhere.[/quote:ee29c2b4af]Well, we're quite a big Terry Pratchett community, and, outside of the actual boards, probably the most noticable. Certainly we come up on Google.
Well, if it was a Terry Pratchett community he was after, despite our size and prominence on Google...we're not exactly the most Pratchetty Pratchett board. But I think I'm digressing now.
[quote:82f365de43="chrisjordan"]All teenagers are losers and dumb and I hate them. But in all seriousness: I don't think the teenager thing is that relevant. I'm the same age as Jaunty, and I didn't go around making an arsehole of myself on message boards when I was 16. Well. Not intentionally, at least. I also don't get why, if he wants a clean slate, he doesn't just go elsewhere.[/quote:82f365de43] I wasn't thinking solely of message boards - one can be a complete arsehole in all sorts of locations - when I was in my mid-teens (about forty years ago) we didn't have the internet and message boards - we had to [s:82f365de43]make our own entertainment[/s:82f365de43] - sorry - make arseholes of ourselves at parties, etc. - everyone is different - some people mature earlier than others and differently in different areas - sometimes reasonably considerate maturity comes after computer abilities, sometimes before - I still say give Jaunty a chance - but only one! Edited to correct wrong BBCode
OK as I'm sure everyone from the old board probably remembers i was a complete arse when i first came on aswell. Although I was a year younger its still unexcusable. I don't think/hope i was as bad as him and I think that I'm a lot better now, i would hope that he's gotten some sense too. what he did on the old boards was bad enough but when he started talking to me it turns out that he knew a very good friend of mine, he then decided to trash her and make her look like a slut. Obviously I wasn't to happy about this and neither was she, I asked him for an IM addres but he never replied, whether thats because he was blocked from these boards or not i don't know but as far as I'm concerned he's a complete bastard. For that and what he did on the boards I don't think that he deserves to be given yet another chance.
I'm not quite sure what to think. Holding a grudge towards a minor over years, because of some internet messup? Sound silly. But from my guts, I think people who keep coming back after years are somewhat creepy, and something tells me inviting him back would be like saying, "Sure, get up our noses, that's what we're here for." Also, I can see us get the www-equivalent of strange looks from our newbits when we drop on him like a ton of rocks for behaviour that sends us into flashbacks, but looks harmless to them. Its a potential for bad blood. And just in general, about "giving chances to people" - its not like he's not going to get a job in real life until we forgive him, or that it grants him getting his driving licence. Its just a board he's been banned off, there are millions of other places he can go to. There's no moral duty lasting on our shoulders to give people another chance. You get banned off a board, you forget about it, and become a better poster on the next one. And with that task, I wish him tons of luck.
More echoity from me on that. [quote:5df3a293a1="Pixel"]I still say give Jaunty a chance - but only one![/quote:5df3a293a1] Thing is, I remember Jaunty being given one last chance, or imploring for one last chance about a dozen times when he was here before and used up all of his last chances. If he has really grown up in the past year, then he'll realise that he can join another internet community somewhere and good luck to him there.
couple of points: grudges in general are stupid and pointless. however, there's a difference between a grudge as "i'm going to continue to sulk because i want to feel mad" and a grudge as in "we gave you a half dozen 'last official warnings' and you spat in our face every time. your responses to us were always offensive until you were blacklisted, at which point they became emotionally blackmailing. we have no desire to ever deal with you again." this brings me to the notion of 'last official warning'. at what point does someone reach 'the end of cake'? we've debated this before, and at the time the conclusion was, Jaunty'd reached the end of cake two times over. does a last official warning fade away after ten months? do we suddenly decide 'okay, let's give gooner another chance' because he wasn't using his own nick for a year? my take on this: the kid has issues. it's not cause of his age or anything, it's cause of who he is. the simple fact that he chose to message me and ask for a clean slate shows that he never accepted our ruling in the first place. there is no reason to believe that he'd be a desirable member of the community. additionally, if we go back on our stance and give him a probational 'yet another last chance', we demonstrate that we have no willingness or desire to enforce our community decisions. we'd be demonstrably a gang of pushovers who're eager to forgive trouble makers and don't have any clear consensus of oppinion internally. lastly, i echo what hsing said
I'm just going to raise a point here, and you can take this as being relevant to the discussion or whatever, but I think it is one that needs to be raised. People on this board have signed up after we left the .com boards, right? How do we know some of them are the same people you guys (not me, because I was only there a week or two) despised, because they kept breaking rules and being an ass?
given: the asses claimed to be posting here in disguise. most likely, that was just an effort to plant paranoia amongst us. however, let us assume that it's not the case. one of the key arguements all those many years ago was that i was some nazi facist bully and no one would want to post on boards run my way. well, these boards opperate pretty much how i would run things if i had such dictatorial powers. if they're posting here, getting along with us, and obeying our rules then a few concerns are raised: 1) why couldn't they do so before, when we didn't have the ability to ban pesky posters? it's evidently a choice on their part, so the flaw must be with them, not with us. 2) why would they want to post here, in disguise or otherwise? after spending so much time to attempt to destroy us, to post as a member of the community now would only underscore the original point that THEY could have tried to fit in, not that we were cliquish or bullies. clearly, they need attention if they're still posting here, but obviously they were capable of going after positive attention instead of negative. i'd conclude, when all is said and done, if they can remain a decent member of the community for all intents and purposes without ever causing noticible trouble or revealing their past crimes, then all they've done is proven the depths of their depravity and vindicated us and our stances during the struggles. we must have the better boards, and they must have been able to fit in as we requested. thus, we win. if they can't remain a decent poster (this is all assuming that any of them are actually here), then we ban them when they become problematic and show no signs of remitence, or we ban them when they unmask themselves and try to prove how clever they were. thus, we win. it's not really a situation where we can lose anything.
I'd say this is a situation where we, collectively, get to be a life lesson for some kid. Jaunty pissed off most of the board, was repeatedly given more chances and repeatedly ruined them. He has to learn the lesson that, in life, you can make a group of people dislike you so much that you don't [i:e8731ef307]ever[/i:e8731ef307] get to go back and make amends. If he learns that now, from us, then hopefully he'll learn to behave better with other groups of people. It's not like we're the only Pratchett community around on the internet or his soul will fall into everlasting torment if he's not redeemed here or anything. We wouldn't make ourselves better people by letting him walk over us again, we'd just make ourselves doormats. We don't make ourselves bad people by refusing to let him join again: it's not [i:e8731ef307]holding a grudge[/i:e8731ef307], it's making a [i:e8731ef307]sensible, informed decision that upholds the rules and norms of this society[/i:e8731ef307].
All very good points made. I agree with what most everyone is saying...ie: The Garners, Hsing etc. I don't like to get in the middle of these things, but I look at it like what would we do it Gooner wanted a clean slate? Do we want to jeprodise our happy family of love and joy boardania because we feel one kid made amends? I dunno. I wouldn't. I would forgive, and tell him to move on with his life.
I think there is a difference between forgiving and liking. I don't think any of us are anoyed or mad at Juanty now. I think after we moved away from him he ceased to feature in our mind. It's not that we hold a grudge, more we don't like him. The type of person he is jars with the type of people we are. I think the peace on both boards now shows that many of the flames wars where clashes of personality. It serves both of us no good to come into contact with each other. Juanty would never really like it here, becuase he'd contine to get moaned at by us becuase he'd continue to do things that anoy us, things that in his mind aren't anoying. It's always important to know when a relationship is worth giving up on. With juanty this was along time ago. Also I think there is an big issue of 'one more chances' I think as a community, it's something that many of us haven't grasped. I think we're still thinking on an individual level rather than community. Thats why people always get about 7 'last chances'.
I'm new here, and wasn't on the last boards, so you may completely disregard my opinion at will. That said, I agree, that forgiveness and foolishness are different things. I'd say that it wuld definately be foolish to let someone who is a proven ****** (annoying person) back on just because they ask.
he's had too many second chances; if it weren't for that (say, he'd been banned outright for annoying us, without all the apologies and promisses to do better) I'd give him another. But he's run out, and only proven in the past that he's either totally insincere when he apologizes or simply is too immature to form part of a community such as this. He's shown us that he is untrustworthy.
[quote:174f7990d1="Angua_rox"]it wuld definately be foolish to let someone who is a proven ****** (annoying person) back on just because they ask.[/quote:174f7990d1] Exactly!
The best way to spoil a child is to let it get its own way if it nags or bats its eyelashes enough. Let this be a learning experience that he can benefit from when he joins any other board but this.
Sometimes, people need to learn that there are consequences to their actions. He lost his chances here. Strike his name from the records, scatter the stones of his house, and let him wander the desert. He is apart from the board forever more.
I think I may be using a whip on a deceased equine here, but I still think that Jaunty should be given that one last chance - after all, he/she (I'm still not sure about that) could have just registered as a new member - thus unidentified - instead, he/she chose to [i:8820179448]ask[/i:8820179448] to be allowed back - I think that this shows a certain amount of maturity finally taking effect!
I thought he [i:d8ebdd8c9d]did[/i:d8ebdd8c9d] register but got banned. Also, I believe he enjoys the attention too much to try to be anonymous.
Pixel, you know we love you... but you're a goddamn idiot. Last change #402 will NOT be allowed to happen. fuck, last chance #4 shouldn't have been allowed!
I believe that he did register on here, thats how he messaged me and presumably he has been banned under that name. I agree that he doesn't deserve another chance.
he'd registered here under a couple of names, in attempts to circumvent the original bannings. all are banned.
[quote:4f5983f65b="Garner"]he'd registered here under a couple of names, in attempts to circumvent the original bannings. all are banned.[/quote:4f5983f65b] OK, I didn't know that - that changes things - no last chance!
[quote:fefb86247c] OK, I didn't know that - that changes things - no last chance! [/quote:fefb86247c] You mean, no [i:fefb86247c]more[/i:fefb86247c] last chances.
