A small anecdote from one of the countries with the lowest birth rates of the world. I've had something really *nice* happening to me yesterday that I would like to share with you connaisseurs of anecdotes. So, I've got this highly important course in Ancient History each tuesday afternoon, and the Ancient History profs are a little pesky when it comes to people missing out on a lesson, no matter why. I've missed out one already because the little one was sick, see, and that means: Please don't miss again, or drop the course. So, an hour before class starts, my babysitter informs me that she's got an emergency in her family and can't come and take care of Malin. I call the usual people (I've got no family in Münster, but friends I can call in those situations), but within an hour, nothing turns up. (They are usually helpful, but have lives themselves, and 60 minutes is too short a span to come up with something if you're not lucky.) So, I've heard so many stories of studying parents taking their kids to the lessons in cases of emergency, and everyone being fine with it. I HAVE to take part. I call the prof, explain my dilemma, and suggest we give it a try, maybe Malin does me the favor and is too much in awe of all that people, a sweet bun, a lemonade and a picturebook, to disturb - at least for 45 minutes or so - you can never tell. I promise that as soon as she starts spreading unquietness, I'll leave with her, because I fully understand an overfilled class like that can't work with a child running through the hall, or just talking loud.... He's relaxed about it, and makes a joke along the lines "You have to promote university to them at an early age..." Fine - I'm relieved I get at least a chance to show my willingness to participate. I wake up the child, pack each ones bags, drive with her through the city (on the bike), and arrive with a very drowsy and well behaved child within the facility. I am halfway up the stairs when one of the janitors shoots out of some corner and stops me. I think, well, maybe he's against us bringing the kid's drink in, fine, understood. But no: "You can't enter this building with a child! That's not allowed!" (*really rude, and slightly panicking voice*) -"Oh, I talked to my prof, he says he's okay with it..." (*baffled*) -"Your prof has no say in this, children are not allowed in this building." -"But I have to attend, it's ...?" -"Children aren't allowed in this building. You have to organize it differently next time." -"Look, if I had had any means of organizing it differently I wouldn't have brought her today!" -"I believe you that much, but it's simply not allowed." -"FINE! But I do have to inform my prof why I am not attending!" I take to further steps upstairs, where the class has filled by now and the prof is waiting. -You can't go in there with the child!" -"Look, I - SHOULD I TIE HER TO A LAMPPOST OUTSIDE OR WHAT?! I'm going upstairs now to tell my prof I'm being sent away, OKAY!?" -"Yeah, fine..." Me: Storms off. By the way, it's a public uni. And thus a public building. Which we pay for with our taxes. The prof was slightly irritated that it shouldn't be his own thing to decide who can attend his lessons and who can't. He allowed me to go, seeing we had no other solution, and is thankfully not going to make trouble because of me missing another lesson. He was probably afraid, seeing how I was fuming and all, that I would spontaeneously combust, or enact it as a Greek Tragedy - but pft, there weren't any women and children allowed on stage either, so what. The way I was told to bugger of was slightly humiliating, though. As if I had brought something incredibly dirty, slobbering, disgusting into some kind of cathedral. I can understand bringing children along makes no sense in some cases, but in this case, it was A) not for fun and we were B) making sure she wasn't going to disturb anyone.
From the mailing list - Garner replied: [quote:f8cda3c776] hmm. gut reaction tells me that the janitor was inacting petty dictatorial abuse protocols. i suspect if you wrote to whatever authority oversees the maintainance of the university, copying the provost's office in as well, you'd get a very polite response that why of COURSE children would not be excluded especially in such a case where it would disadvantage a nontraditional student such as yourself. a polite apology and assurances that it won't happen again may follow in that case, but it'd probably be too much to hope for a university support group for offspring of students, some sort of creche or whatever. just a thought, really. if it turns out that the janitor wasn't overstepping his bounds, then there's a different solution. break his knee caps with a ballpeen hammer and then drag him to the top row of the largest auditorium in the building after taping his mouth shut, and filling the floor with broken glass. for extra credit, hotwire the doorknobs to that auditorium to the mains power supply when you leave, but include a timer circuit that closes the connection for one second for every 75 miliseconds the connection is open. [/quote:f8cda3c776] Hsing replied:[quote:f8cda3c776] Sounds great. Especially the second concept. I've got our Student's Council on it, by the way. And there is a creche for student's offspring, with 40 places on three university with 60 000(!) students. 8 of these places are for children under three years old. When I applied, they told us we didn't even have to come over because it was more than unlikly we'd get a place at all.[/quote:f8cda3c776] Roman relplied: [quote:f8cda3c776]I honestly can't think of one building in our uni where children aren't allowed. [/quote:f8cda3c776]
It sounds to me that the janitor was being a total Jobsworth* - why is it that the lower down the organization someone is, the more officious they can become? I have encountered this many times, but I think the most extreme case was when I was in a queue at the check-in at the airport here, and a mop-jockey cleaning the floor simply ran his mop up against my feet and then kept pushing it so that I had to move - obviously, in his mind, the whole airport had its sole function as being somewhere for him to clean - all these annoying passengers were just obstacles in his path! *For those unfamiliar with colloquial English, a "Jobsworth" is any petty official or employee whose standard phrase (usually preceded by that sucking in of breath - the sort of reverse whistle that tells you that whatever comes next is not going to be good) is " It's more than my job's worth to let you do that!"
When I did my English and History degrees we used to get parents bringing children to lectures now and again, in similar situations to yours actually where they had no choice.
I agree with Garner and Pixel that this man sounds like a bit of a pocket dictator. Only those without real authority love the letter of the law and not its spirit - even given which, I find it unlikely that such a rule actually existed. I find this man's attitude and behaviour abysmal.
Academics here aften bring their kids to work when they have no where else to take them (ie we had a teachers strike on Monday and the halls were alight with the laughter (read screams) of bored kids). Theres also a cronic shortage of childcare facilities on campus making it difficult for people... When I was an undergrad I knew a girl who would take her son into the chemistry lab as a last resort and no-one had a problem with that. so in conclusion my verdict is: Your uni is run by butt wads.
The local college has no difficulty with students or teachers bringing children, so long as they're well-behaved. It was really quite convenient. Ba didn't always have to buy his lunch.
[quote:ec00d5048b="Ba"]The local college has no difficulty with students or teachers bringing children, so long as they're well-behaved. It was really quite convenient. Ba didn't always have to buy his lunch.[/quote:ec00d5048b] So are you more of a baby onna stick or a baby inna bun extra-mustard-hold-the-onions [s:ec00d5048b]man [/s:ec00d5048b]god, then ?
Sheesh, Ba is so pragmatic. By the way, I got a mail from a fellow student who's also attaining that class, and it seems the prof told the whole class of 60 people the story after I had rushed off because he was so irritated and didn't just want to file it and forget about it. It's been discussed - - and it was agreed that in case I wanted to write a formal complaint, all 70 students wanted to sign, if I thought that would make it look more important. As I said in the "little things" thread - [i:cd602cf659]wow[/i:cd602cf659]. Normally when I explode, everyone around me just ducks and covers and hopes I storm off pretty soon instead of going "RIGHT she is!".
[quote:dfb1646d3a="Hsing"]Sheesh, Ba is so pragmatic. By the way, I got a mail from a fellow student who's also attaining that class, and it seems the prof told the whole class of 60 people the story after I had rushed off because he was so irritated and didn't just want to file it and forget about it. It's been discussed - - and it was agreed that in case I wanted to write a formal complaint, all 70 students wanted to sign, if I thought that would make it look more important. As I said in the "little things" thread - [i:dfb1646d3a]wow[/i:dfb1646d3a]. [/quote:dfb1646d3a] Good news! I bet even the janitor thought the rule he was enforcing was silly, but was too scared of not enforcing it. [quote:dfb1646d3a]Normally when I explode, everyone around me just ducks and covers and hopes I storm off pretty soon instead of going "RIGHT she is!".[/quote:dfb1646d3a] I bet they did both
Janitor thinking the rule was silly? No way - people like that just love to have the means to push their superiors about!
[quote:c296fc7952="Pixel"]Janitor thinking the rule was silly? No way - people like that just love to have the means to push their superiors about![/quote:c296fc7952] Hsing? Superior? I don't know...
[quote:52db351ca7="spiky"][quote:52db351ca7="Pixel"]Janitor thinking the rule was silly? No way - people like that just love to have the means to push their superiors about![/quote:52db351ca7] Hsing? Superior? I don't know...[/quote:52db351ca7] Well, mentally superior, obviously... :cooler: we all know hierarchy has nothing to do with brains !
I seem to remember that my mother brought me into some of her classes when she was in Grad school. No one had a problem about it.
[quote:033015fea3="Katcal"][quote:033015fea3="spiky"][quote:033015fea3="Pixel"]Janitor thinking the rule was silly? No way - people like that just love to have the means to push their superiors about![/quote:033015fea3] Hsing? Superior? I don't know...[/quote:033015fea3] Well, mentally superior, obviously... :cooler: we all know hierarchy has nothing to do with brains ![/quote:033015fea3] The man is probably a rocket scientist who got mobbed out of his team, and while they prepare for getting a nobel price next year, he's trying to keep up with paying the alimonies for his wife, who took his villa in Hamburg, his finca on Mallorca, and his Lambhorghini (sp?). And then he had a bad day because his old polo injury hurt. but seriously, I'm on good terms with many on the janitors, who know me from my old job. I think I'm just going to ask one of them if they got rules like that to pass on.
