I haven’t been eating much for the last few days; in fact I’ve been on a vegan diet. I haven’t had any meat, milk, or any other such products in five days. I just went out to dinner and had a lovely large stake, covered in a rich butter sauce. My god I feel so much better now. I’ve always know a person shouldn’t mess with vegans…they’re militant, but I’ve never really know why they behave that way. Now I do. Those people are hungry man, and I mean hungry. No wonder I’ve been so pissed off lately. Don’t ever mess with a vegan. People are so worried about their arteries and heart and other pointless things…these days they don’t realize just how important it is to also have food for the soul. As any Frenchman can tell you, the soul is located in your stomach. With out meat your soul just withers up into a frail dried out husk. We were meant to eat dead animals, they taste good. Without them you’ll end up and angry, mean, and hungry vegan, who is more than likely masquerading as a kind loving hippy. When ever you see a love child just remember that they’re really a starving, angry cow. (which is probabley why they don't eat cows) I mean no insult to vegans by this....I have many friends who are vegans, but then I like mean people.
Eat somo meat!! Or at the outside cheese on toast...mmmm cheese on toast... *Wonders off in search of cheese on toast*
I support Ba's suggestion. Seriously though, humans are omnivores. We are in fact meant to eat meat AND vegetables. The vegan diet lacks too much essentials. I understand vegitarians, whatever their reasons are. I don't like the fact that calves grow up in a box or that chickens get their beaks cut off - because there are 150 on a square meter- either. Which is why I try to eat freerange chicken and such. My girlfriend is vegetarian but decided to eat fish because she felt that her diet lacked. She doesn't eat salmon though. Veganism is just one step too far. And unhealthy.
I'm willing to bet there are plenty of healthy/happy vegans out there who know what to eat in order to compensate for the lack of meat, in terms of both vitamins and taste. But I'm guessing you have to be one of the following: - born and raised in a culture where healthy vegan dishes are part of the tradition - a kind of person willing to invest the tons of time it would take to find, buy and prepare the right food (as opposed to just grabbing whatever's in the fridge) - a very rich person who can affod a personal dietician/cook Any happy/healthy vegans out there, who can contest this?
I'm vegetarian, not a vegan .. and as Mowgli said, its a matter of living in a place where vegetarianism is the norm. If you go to a restaurant which is good for non-vegetarian dishes, they just keep the meat out or replace it with some vegetarian stuff. That isn't vegetarian food, it is sorely lacking in a lot of stuff you would get in a proper vegetarian restaurant. And hence it isn't a balanced meal, so it's probably more unhealthy in the long run. So if you are a vegetarian in a place where this is strange (like I was), the only option is cooking for oneself.
You don't have to eat animal products. Just make sure you are getting plenty of protein. And take Vitamin B12 supplements. Like Sampanna said, when you eat a vegan meal, make sure you are actually getting a meal, with a substantial amount of protein, not a carnivorous meal with the meat taken out so all the protein is gone. Like a certain restaurant chain whose "vegetarian" sandwich is two slices of bread with lettuce, tomato and various other veggies and condiments in between. Also, a vegan diet can be just as crap as a meat diet. You can eat pasta all day and still be vegan.
I've known vegans who lived of potatoe crisps for a few days, when there was nothing else at hand... Then again, I've known some vegans who must have done things right, because they reported having improved their health. Often, those people had plenty of food allergies before and problems with dairy products (I don't know the English word for it right now, but I suppose you can guess.) I suppose it wasn't just propaganda, because in at least two of these cases, the improvement was visible. I myself have been a Vegetarian for six years, but developed a mean craving for meat during my pregnancy, parallelly to an anemia. Nothing I tried to compensate that helped at all. I then gave in to what my body kept telling me. Right now, I'm thinking of returning to a Vegatarian diet, but before doing so, I would want to take precautions that I put enough proteins and iron in our diet, more because of my daughter than because of me. Before the pregancy, I was a very healthy Vegetarian, I never had anemia or anything else you could relate to my diet. Now, though... Links appreciated!
I was a vegan baby. Actually, I was breastfed, but my family were vegan. It is perfectly possible to maintain a healthy, balanced, vegan diet. The trouble is, it takes quite a lot of time and energy to do so. I happily eat and use animal products myself. What I find strange is people who are vegetarian for ethical reasons, but not vegan. If you think it's immoral to eat a calf, why do you not think it immoral to eat an egg or to wear leather? It strikes me as a double standard. If it's simply for dietary reasons, fair play to you. A vegan diet can bring about improvements to health. Likewise, an omnivorous diet can do the same. It just depends on what the individual needs.
[quote:b5a2d58391="Buzzfloyd"] I happily eat and use animal products myself. What I find strange is people who are vegetarian for ethical reasons, but not vegan. If you think it's immoral to eat a calf, why do you not think it immoral to eat an egg or to wear leather? It strikes me as a double standard. [/quote:b5a2d58391] For me at least, it is an attempt to minimize the immorality of my actions. I try to minimize leather and animal products as much as possible, but until the corporate world learns to accept sneakers for example, I have to wear formal leather shoes to a meeting. It is double standards, no doubt, but like I said, I try to minimize what I consider not right, even if I am not doing away with such behavior entirely.
What about Fake leather sampanna? it is made out of oil products and other organic chemicals. A nice set of fake leather shoes is likely very expensive though but then so is leather.
Hey, good idea .. will try hunt around a bit. The only ones I saw before were cheap plasticky looking ones, which do not exactly create agood impression when you walk into a meeting! But I never looked again, and this was a long time ago. With the added awareness now, I guess I should find a good pair of fake leather (even if expensive) shoes.
sampanna wrote: [quote:26855f4b66]For me at least, it is an attempt to minimize the immorality of my actions. I try to minimize leather and animal products as much as possible, but until the corporate world learns to accept sneakers for example, I have to wear formal leather shoes to a meeting. It is double standards, no doubt, but like I said, I try to minimize what I consider not right, even if I am not doing away with such behavior entirely. [/quote:26855f4b66] I, as I think I’ve made obvious, and happily omnivores, and I’m also quiet lacking in the morals department. But what I’ve never understood is how a person can refuse to wear leather for moral reasons, yet wear sneakers that are made by poor starving, abused whelps in the middle of China. My cousin, a Vegan and an active member of PETA, does avoid all products a child labor…but so many moral people don’t even look at the labels. It makes no sense to me. One of my main goals is to not lie to myself, I realize that to continue with the comforts and lifestyle I have I must accept the hideous conditions under which others live, and I’m okay with that. I do certain things to give back to the community, but only so I don’t feel awful about myself. But I really do sometimes feeling like tumbling into a heap of giggles when the Vegetarian in Prada starts yammering on about her high morals and how much she cares for the environment as she tosses her organic, soy, sugar free, Twinkie substitute out the car window.
Ah! But that prada-wearing Vegetarian is contributing to the circle of life!!! The twinkie will be eaten by a pigeon, who will be run over by a car, who will be eaten by a buzzard, who will be shot (and then eaten) by a clueless hunter who thinks that just because he's got a cool new camouflage hat, he can tell a buzzard from a pheasant. I try to stay away from meat (as well as leather and animal-tested shampoos), but if I'm ever in a situation where the only way to provide food for myself and my family is to hunt - I'll do it. I'll fell awful and I'll try to make it as painless for the animal as I can, but I'll do it. Yet I have a friend who thinks hamburgers and leather jackets are his God-given right, yet who once told me he'd never - EVER - hunt, not even if his life depended on it. I find it confusing.
I think in some cases its a matter of degrees of separation... I mean as long as its not me doing the killing but someone else its OK for me to enjoy the outcome but if its me doing the killing then I can't enjoy the by-products to... I've hunted, killed [i:4ab90fe45b]and[/i:4ab90fe45b] eaten animals... I [i:4ab90fe45b]like[/i:4ab90fe45b] meat and leather. I don't condone cruelty to animals, if you have to kill them you do it in the quickest most efficient way possible but then you don't turn around and say that its the [i:4ab90fe45b]right[/i:4ab90fe45b] thing to do, its just whats done... I have heard of vegans who went to vegetariansim but then decided that the way in which chickens were kept for their eggs and the way cows were kept for milk was also inhumane so turned to veganism as a total repelling of the live farming industry and their practices. Fair enough, but you can't expect everyone to view the milking of a cow as inhumane...
...I suspect that it's not the fact of milking - you GOTTA milk a cow, otherwise she will be in extreme pain! - but the fact that these cows are kept in captivity, in cramped conditions. And maybe possibly the fact that their calves are taken away as soon as they're born.
[quote:bc40172db4="mowgli"] I try to stay away from meat (as well as leather and animal-tested shampoos), but if I'm ever in a situation where the only way to provide food for myself and my family is to hunt - I'll do it. I'll fell awful and I'll try to make it as painless for the animal as I can, but I'll do it. Yet I have a friend who thinks hamburgers and leather jackets are his God-given right, yet who once told me he'd never - EVER - hunt, not even if his life depended on it. I find it confusing.[/quote:bc40172db4] I can completely see the point from which you friend is coming from. Of course you don’t hunt, that is what women are for. Women a naturally superior to men in every way, anything I can do she can do better. There for women should do everything, we fellows are simply here for ornamentation. I’d rather die the kill an animal…I can’t stand any kind of gore. This is why I refuse to cook meet, I’ll only eat it. I wouldn’t say it is our god given right to eat animals, but I don’t see any reason not to, as long as the animals a killed and treated humanly (isn’t that the funniest word, I think that if you were to be truly humane you’d be bashing in their heads just to see them in pain). I’m very careful to only eat animals that have had a relatively nice life; I also don’t eggs or drink milk from non-free-range creatures.
[quote:4e762c84f2="Deathinapinkboa"] I can completely see the point from which you friend is coming from. Of course you don’t hunt, that is what women are for. Women a naturally superior to men in every way, anything I can do she can do better. There for women should do everything, we fellows are simply here for ornamentation. [/quote:4e762c84f2] I don't understand that at all. [quote:4e762c84f2]I’d rather die the kill an animal…I can’t stand any kind of gore. This is why I refuse to cook meet, I’ll only eat it.[/quote:4e762c84f2] If the animal is already dead, why does it matter who cooks it? Why is eating meat any less gory than cooking meat? Is it because when you cook the meat you get to see it at it's raw, pre-cooked stage, whereas when you eat it, it's already cooked and doesn't look so much like it was once part of a live animal? Regardless of what meat looks like when you eat it, you have to recognise that it came from a live animal. [quote:4e762c84f2="Buzzfloyd"]I was a vegan baby. Actually, I was breastfed, but my family were vegan. It is perfectly possible to maintain a healthy, balanced, vegan diet. The trouble is, it takes quite a lot of time and energy to do so.[/quote:4e762c84f2] Many babies are raised on soy formula because they can't tolerate milk. There was a case a while back (I believe in New York) where a mother and father were arrested for child abuse for raising their babies vegan. In this case, though, the children were severely malnourished, basically starving, and hadn't been able to grow properly. If you can't put in the work that goes into a healthy vegan diet, then you shouldn't be vegan.
[quote:2680b2a124="Marcia"][quote:2680b2a124="Deathinapinkboa"] I can completely see the point from which you friend is coming from. Of course you don’t hunt, that is what women are for. Women a naturally superior to men in every way, anything I can do she can do better. There for women should do everything, we fellows are simply here for ornamentation. [/quote:2680b2a124] I don't understand that at all.[/quote:2680b2a124] I think it is quite clear, girls are better at things, if you want some thing done do it yourself, if you want something done [i:2680b2a124]right[/i:2680b2a124] find the right person to do it. [quote:2680b2a124="Marcia"] [quote:2680b2a124]I’d rather die then kill an animal…I can’t stand any kind of gore. This is why I refuse to cook meet, I’ll only eat it.[/quote:2680b2a124] If the animal is already dead, why does it matter who cooks it? Why is eating meat any less gory than cooking meat? Is it because when you cook the meat you get to see it at it's raw, pre-cooked stage, whereas when you eat it, it's already cooked and doesn't look so much like it was once part of a live animal? Regardless of what meat looks like when you eat it, you have to recognise that it came from a live animal. [/quote:2680b2a124] You've hit the nail right on the head here. I'm not going to kill something myself, or look at it raw...but I'll happily eat it. Yes, I recognise that it came from a live animal, but to eat it I must disassocate (is that spelled correctly? I don't think so) from this. I enjoy it to much to give it up, as it is I do limit the amount of meat I eat.
I think it's sad that many people today have so dissasociated themselves from the food-making process that they eat food without understanding what they are eating. That they are made to forget that Bessie the Cow who they petted at the children's farm is the same type of animal that's made up the hamburger that they're eating today. I may have a different attitude because I'm Jewish and part of the requirements of eating according to the dietary laws is knowing how the animal you are eating was killed. (Muslim laws are the same, I believe.) When my mother was young, if her mother wanted to cook chicken for dinner, she used to go to a chicken farm, catch a chicken and chop it's head off. (Hence the expression, 'running around like a chicken without a head.' Apparently the nervous system still works for a while after the head is chopped off.)
[quote:5fa5dd3226="Marcia"]I think it's sad that many people today have so dissasociated themselves from the food-making process that they eat food without understanding what they are eating. [/quote:5fa5dd3226] Shed no tears for me then. I've been on a tour through a meatworks, all the way from the stock yards to the shipping dock, and I only have one thing to say about the 'kill floor'. :shock: Doesn't stop me from eating meat though. I understand the sentiments of vegitarians, but vegans confuse the hell out of me, it's just not natural. What really pisses me off is those nut-jobs that throw red paint on people wearing fur coats, I bet you'll never see them throwing paint on a leather wearing hells angel.
If I had to kill animals and prepare them for cooking myself, it's very unlikely that I would eat meat. However, since I don't have to, I see no reason why I should stop eating meat anyway, since it is an important and natural part of my diet, and keeps me healthy. The whole notion of civilisation is that we specialise for efficiency. In a civilised society, other people do things for you (and you specialise in something to do for them) so that we all have more free time to focus on other things such as the arts or religion. So, the farmer rears the animals for everyone, the cook does the cooking for everyone, and I do the bean-counting (accountancy/bookkeeping) for them. If I had to make my own shoes, I'd have to go barefoot, because I lack the strength of will and skill to skin an animal and turn its hide into footwear. I am also incapable of drilling for oil, storing it, refining it to make plastic and moulding that into a pair of trainers. I don't know that I could grow hemp, or that I'd be able to make into shoes. Any which way you look at it, I'd be out of shoes. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to wear them now. OK, but the issue with hunting is that I wouldn't have the will to kill an animal and prepare it. Well, nor do I have the gumption to carry out surgery on a human (not to mention the skill, again); but that doesn't mean I'll refuse to accept surgery when I need it. I don't know if I'd have the stomach to deal with raw sewage, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop using the WC (exactly the opposite!). God bless those sewage workers. I worked at an undertaker's for three years. I doubt that many of the people who came to us could have dealt with the dead bodies of their loved ones. That doesn't mean they shouldn't ask us to. That's the whole flipping point of living in a community instead of as a hermit. You get other people to do the things for you that you can't do yourself, or don't wish to. It's not immoral, it's just sensible. If other people want to eat vegetarian or vegan or whatever, that's fine. But I don't see anything immoral or illogical about my choices.
[quote:cd0e082a33="Ecksian"] I've been on a tour through a meatworks, all the way from the stock yards to the shipping dock, and I only have one thing to say about the 'kill floor'. :shock: Doesn't stop me from eating meat though. [/quote:cd0e082a33] I'm sorry...but that is just to perfect for words. I often consider become a vegitarian because of my need to remove myself from the meat processing industry, but I quickly change my mind. I'm happy to embrace the advantages of civilization. I'm not really a nice person, so the morale reasoning hasn't ever really gotten to me. I can't let myself call something imorale because of the ick factor, because if I didn't I'd be out protesting against heterosexuals showing public displayes of affection.
Meat comes from tamed animals specially bred by humans for their meat... if we stopped eating meat the cows wouldn't be bred, so they would never be born (to fulfill the purpose of their existence) so you might find that we end up with the extinction of cows cos its not like they can look after themselves, they need farmers and farmers need them. If farmers no longer need cows --> no more cows... There is a reason farmers aren't vegetarian even though they deal with the animals everyday of the week (Bessie the moo cow oh so coudly and human-like)... Spend more time around a cow than just patting it and you realise its just a big dumb chewing machine designed to be eaten or milked... If this can be achieved with the least amount of suffering for the cow all well and good... but by eating that cow you are doing its species a favour, you are providing a reason for the species' continuing existence... If you don't eat that cow, there will be no reason for any more cows so the species will die out... If cows weren't so bloody dumb I'm sure they'd be conscious of the good their sacrifice is making to the cow-race... And I think that is as good as my twisted logic can get...You just need to think in a communist way, where the good of the mass is valued over the pain of the individual being eaten.
I didn't mean that you should kill and prepare all your food yourself. If I had to do that, I'd probably end up starving, not because I have a problem with hunting, but because I'd probably be an incompetent hunter. I was talking about psychologically dissaciating yourself from your process. Even if you didn't slaughter the cow yourself, you should be aware that it was once a living thing that was slaughtered, and you should be able to connect the small cut of meat on your plate with the side of beef hanging at the butcher's that actually looks like half a dead cow, and you should be able to connect that with cows you see in a field. The same way that when duck is served in a restaurant, I connect it with the cute little ducklings I see wandering around York. It doensn't mean that I won't eat duck, just I realise that the duck I am eating was once a cute little duckling, it wasn't made by a person in a duck meat factory. I do think that it's good for people to have the experience of having to kill something for food at least once in their lives, just so they can get a real understanding of the whole food chain process, and that it involves death and pain. I've never hunted, but I have fished. edit: I agree with Spiky that domestic cows would not exist if people did not want to eat them or drink their milk.
Ba connects with his food. Often, he has conversations with his food. Why, last night, he had a scintillating discussion on the correllation between the rise of feminism and the downhill trend of education in the US before the oven heated up.
[quote:522f34b554="spiky"]Meat comes from tamed animals specially bred by humans for their meat... if we stopped eating meat the cows wouldn't be bred, so they would never be born (to fulfill the purpose of their existence) so you might find that we end up with the extinction of cows cos its not like they can look after themselves, they need farmers and farmers need them. If farmers no longer need cows --> no more cows... There is a reason farmers aren't vegetarian even though they deal with the animals everyday of the week (Bessie the moo cow oh so coudly and human-like)... Spend more time around a cow than just patting it and you realise its just a big dumb chewing machine designed to be eaten or milked... If this can be achieved with the least amount of suffering for the cow all well and good... but by eating that cow you are doing its species a favour, you are providing a reason for the species' continuing existence... If you don't eat that cow, there will be no reason for any more cows so the species will die out... If cows weren't so bloody dumb I'm sure they'd be conscious of the good their sacrifice is making to the cow-race... And I think that is as good as my twisted logic can get...You just need to think in a communist way, where the good of the mass is valued over the pain of the individual being eaten.[/quote:522f34b554] HEAR HEAR! I was worried for a tim a while back because they predicted (in some magazine) that farming and production of meat would become illegal somwhere around 2020. No more meat? No meat to eat is an abomination unto nuggain for me. I come from namibia. In other words i practically live on the stuff.
[size=12:14a0153a53]Ba, Buzzfloyd: * * I think there [i:14a0153a53]are [/i:14a0153a53]ways of ethical consuming - well, not entirely ethical, that's almost not practicable if you're not a hermite... I'd call it more "responsible consuming". Being a vegetarian [i:14a0153a53]can [/i:14a0153a53]be your personal way of doing so. But buying fair traded coffee, or organic food from time to time -depending on if you can afford it-, or avoiding certain products when you know they've been produced under circumstances that hold more misery to people involved than benefits, or cause unnecessary damage to the environment to increase profit, are also possible ways. I think the point is having a general idea where the stuff -not only the food- comes from, what consequences your behaviour as a consumer has, and meeting your own decision basing on your priorities instead os mindlessly consuming whatever lands on your plate, or is put in front of your nose, however. I think that's a point where Marcias and Buzzfloyds views might meet... well, Deathinapinkboa's maybe not, according to DIAPBs own statement... What bothers me are people who believe to have found the only way ethical behaviour is possible and that all those who are not following their way can't be morally acting people. There is no need to tell you, I suppose... But I've known people who seriously believed that someone who eats meat can not be a more moral person than a person living as a vegan/vegetarian (I've been one for six years, by the way), no matter what else this person does in his/her life. I try to have some basic knowledge of what I am consuming, which sometimes leads to avoiding certain products because, for example, feeling good in your new jeans can depend not only on how it fits. It makes me buy only fair traded coffee, and because we can afford only so much fair trade (which has to be more expensive, that is, after all, what makes it fair) we buy only half as much as before. (You can't do that with bread, of course.) I avoid some clothing shops despite them being extremely cheap*, and wear my sister's hand-me-down clothes or repair my jumper for the second time when most others would put it away, because it happens only ever so often that I can afford to buy clothing in the other, not-extremely-cheap shops. I try not to easily buy stuff, and not to easily throw it away, because I think that mentality causes a lot of problems. That kind of stuff.[/size:14a0153a53] [size=9:14a0153a53] *I can imagine that a lot of sweat shop jobs are preferable to, to put it bluntly, starving or prostitution. Sometimes, though, you know for sure that a company caused the misery in the first place that it is now taking profit of, or that the production conditions are so extremely miserable that you just can't see yourself buying stuff from that company, especially when other companies producing the same stuff in the same area manage to keep up some standards, and thus should receive your money... I hope I do make some sense. Example of the first: A lot of sea products -shrimps as well as fish- are being bred in lakes and in coastal areas that had to be virtually destroyed, for example by flooding them with salt water to make them fit for the production. Those areas provided, before that, land and fishing ground for many people, and are now feeding only a few employees and a big company. So, if I buy shrimps at all -not a vital ingredient of any cuisine, I'd say- I don't buy them if it says "bred in...." whatever... just an example. Example of the second: A lot of German companies produce clothing -partly- in Bangladesh. Some companies declared that they are maintaining some working standards, for example employing no children (but their better paid parents instead) and keeping up safety standards, and keeping it all relatively transparent. Two other companies are now being reported to have been producing in a factory where a few people actually died because of low security levels. If I have the choice, I'll not buy their clothes. [/size:14a0153a53]
We raised rabbits and chickens growing up. My dad grew up on a dairy farm and we used to visit quite a bit. I've never had a problems eating any of them. We had our special rabbits and chicks that we named and kept. The others we were not allowed to play with and get to know. I don't really know if there is an animal, or any food for that matter, that I wouldn't try once. Knowing where my food came from helped me to conserve. That and my dad beating seven levels of hell out of us if we didn't finish our food. AND we had to go back and finish the food. If you realise that what you're eating came from your back yard and it will take a while to replace then you will probably be more likely to eat what you need and not just fill up on meat or gorge yourself. I have no problem with someone being vegetarian or vegan, but for them to try to push their beliefs on me will not work and WILL make me quite irrate. I do not mind them telling me about it or encouraging me, but it's just when they try to push it on me.
I think it is very important to know where your food comes from and tell your children,too. My husband's family tells the story of his cousin Johnny and Grandma Carlson( she was married twice) and the chicken dinner. Seems Johnny was all for chicken dinner until he realized what Grandma was going to do with the ax, then he grabbed the ax from her and proposed to let her feel what the chicken would have felt. Scared the dickens out of her, and I have never met cousin Johnny. By the way, Marcia, chickens do actually sometimes run around with their heads cut off but mostly they just flop and lurch and flap around for longer then you can believe. We didn't just raise pigs, we also had chickens, ducks, geese, pheasants and eventually wild turkeys, and a few head of cows. They aren't always that dumb either. George liked to bite the clothes pins off the clothes line and come up on the porch to look in the livingroom windows when ever he was bored. I cried and cried when Dad butchered him, but when we butchered the two roosters from hell a few years later we put their names on the freezer paper so we could get our full revenge against their evil ways.
Hsing, I agree with you absolutely. The fact that I eat meat does not mean that I don't try to make ethical choices when buying food - or anything else for that matter. I have been supporting fair trade ever since I heard about it twelve years ago. I'm so happy that it's now possible to get fair trade products in supermarkets (Co-op's own brad fair trade chocolate is my personal favourite). I do my best to buy organically farmed products (Ba, I know your objections to the logic of that label, but I also know that you understand what is meant by it). My reasons for this are not only the impact of chemicals on the environment, farm workers and our health, but also that traditional farming practices help preserve endangered wildlife, maintain the landscape, prevent soil erosion and keep small farms in business. I understand that organic produce is too expensive for some people, but for me it's a priority since I can afford it. I also avoid GM products if I can, due to the unknown effects on our health and the known detrimental effects on wildlife where they are grown, and because I don't wish to support bullying big business. What you eat is political because how you spend your money is more important than how you vote; we all have power as consumers to show what we will support and what we won't. My mother wrote on the inside of her purse (that's the thing she keeps her money in, for Americans, not her handbag); "Bless, bless, and do not curse, purse."
[quote:23c34b2424="spiky"]And I think that is as good as my twisted logic can get...You just need to think in a communist way, where the good of the mass is valued over the pain of the individual being eaten.[/quote:23c34b2424] That is so sig worthy
[quote:2d3dabfdc8="Hsing"]your nose, however. I think that's a point where Marcias and Buzzfloyds views might meet... well, Deathinapinkboa's maybe not, according to DIAPBs own statement... [/quote:2d3dabfdc8] I fear I make myself sound far more awful then I am. I rarely eat produce that is not organic or animals that were not humanely murdered. Nor do I eat meat more then thrice a week. I even keep chickens, but only for the eggs. I simply must disassociate myself from the meet I eat; I didn’t have to do this when I was younger. As a small child I would name the bacon on my platter. I most often named it Betsy. I do believe that people should limit the amount of meat they eat, but more for health reasons the ethical.
