"He turned out to be quite a powerful man. He raped 10 women. I never expected it from him. He surprised all of us. I envy him." -- Russian president Vladimir Putin on Israeli president Moshe Katsay, in overheard remarks
They're saying now that he may have been misinterpreted. Perhaps they missed off the word 'not' right at the end?
Translation may have a lot to do with it, the version I heard was more of him marvelling the vigour of the man, being physically able to rape 10 women... Not nice either, but different...
[quote:c236420388="Katcal"]Translation may have a lot to do with it, the version I heard was more of him marvelling the vigour of the man, being physically able to rape 10 women... [/quote:c236420388] And that sounds better than what?
I said, not better, just different... It was just to show the difference in translations, maybe that wasn't clear... It's still gross-a-mundo.
[quote:a307a39f69="Marcia"][quote:a307a39f69="Katcal"]Translation may have a lot to do with it, the version I heard was more of him marvelling the vigour of the man, being physically able to rape 10 women... [/quote:a307a39f69] And that sounds better than what?[/quote:a307a39f69] Envying him for [i:a307a39f69]actually[/i:a307a39f69] raping ten women? One is simply an old man wishing he were still virile, as most old men do. The other would reflect a rather terrible disdain for women. Certainly, if it was simply his desire for virility, then it's embarrassing for him to have said it. But it's not as bad as harboring a desire to go out and rape. One means the news outlets get a laugh. The other means that the man should be removed from office.
I don't think it is any better. It displays a worrying view of sexuality. He defines his desire for sexual experience by his desire for the ability to disregard emotional context and penetrate a woman. The woman does not enter into his perception and he equates healthy male sexuality with the power to rape, as a result. He may simply desire virility, but his view of virility as the defining element of sex displays a closet misogyny that is truly revolting. This is a tragic illustration of how our culture still treats women like three holes and two hands.* *Wording largely stolen off Andalusian.
So, viagra is evil, then? Ba's not denying this would be embarrassing, or that it shows a certain lack of empathy for the victims, if that really is what Putin meant. But a man wanting to be able to get it up simply is not as bad as wanting to rape. Frankly, calling it the same diminishes the crime of rape, even as Putin's comment does. That's why it's important which he meant. If he meant that he really wishes he could rape ten women, then that's rather more serious than if he just made a tasteless comment about his own lack of virility.
[quote:a6c1abf01e="Ba"] If he meant that he really wishes he could rape ten women, then that's rather more serious than if he just made a tasteless comment about his own lack of virility.[/quote:a6c1abf01e] [quote:a6c1abf01e="Katcal"]Translation may have a lot to do with it, the version I heard was more of him marvelling the vigour of the man, being physically able to rape 10 women...([/quote:a6c1abf01e] Being physically able to rape someone (subdue them and injure them) is not the same as being physically able to get it up (virility). Have sex with 10 women does not mean the same thing as rape 10 women.
Raping ten women or envying someone who can rape ten women raises two points: Disregard for women as people (both of the quotees) Envying someone who needs to rape because he presumably can't get sex any other way (quotee Vladimir Putin about Moshe Katsay) And these are national leaders? Something is wrong with the world!
[quote:be90233f10="Ba"]So, viagra is evil, then?[/quote:be90233f10] Straw man. I do think the disproportionate focus on Viagra promotes an unhealthy view of masculinity, though. Male sexuality should not be defined by a phallic fixation. [quote:be90233f10="Ba"]Ba's not denying this would be embarrassing, or that it shows a certain lack of empathy for the victims, if that really is what Putin meant. But a man wanting to be able to get it up simply is not as bad as wanting to rape. Frankly, calling it the same diminishes the crime of rape, even as Putin's comment does.[/quote:be90233f10] I don't think calling both interpretations worrying diminishes the horror of either. They do not have any bearing on each other's inappropriateness. One is not acceptable because the other's worse. Whether or not he specifies a desire to rape, his comments were morally despicable. [quote:be90233f10="Ba"]That's why it's important which he meant. If he meant that he really wishes he could rape ten women, then that's rather more serious than if he just made a tasteless comment about his own lack of virility.[/quote:be90233f10] It is important which he meant. I don't deny that. I do think, however, that his view of virility, as Marcia also pointed out, warrants more scrutiny than a news room chuckle. He states a desire for the ability to be in control and aroused in a sexual situation with a subjugated woman. His view of sex is clearly grounded in the psychological contours of rape. Rape is about the power to hurt and abuse someone. If that's what he equates with sex, then he does not see women as human beings. [quote:be90233f10="Pixel"]Envying someone who needs to rape because he presumably can't get sex any other way (quotee Vladimir Putin about Moshe Katsay).[/quote:be90233f10] This illustrates how Putin turns sex into a power issue. He envies forcing sexual contact. Not the act itself, not the emotional context involved, but the dominance.
Seemingly Putin's spokesmen pulled one of the cheapest rethorical cards: (from http://www.haaretzdaily.com/)
SO this means that English speakers don't understand Russian humour... and here was me thinking that Russians don't have a sense of humour to be understood... All is explained and of course if it was a joke then its all OK then :roll:
And the fact that rape is always a power-issue and only very seldom a sexual issue. True, raps does contain sex but that's not what gets the rapers off
[quote:c6a2ba0c81="spiky"]SO this means that English speakers don't understand Russian humour... and here was me thinking that Russians don't have a sense of humour to be understood... All is explained and of course if it was a joke then its all OK then :roll:[/quote:c6a2ba0c81] Yep, it's a pretty lame-sounding excuse, but still, he's not saying it's a question of sense of humour, but of translation, and humour [i:c6a2ba0c81]is [/i:c6a2ba0c81]a very difficult thing to translate in general, especially when it's culture dependant. In this particular case, I don't think even translation can save the comment from being sick, no matter what the exact content, especially considered the rest of Putin's actions and declarations, I mean this is at the very best a light coat of icing on a very big rich fruit cake, with or without this comment, he's not a nice person...
At the time, our PM Olmert was so embarrassed that he just mumbled something along the lines of "Don't envy him." Frankly, just this once, I can't blame Olmert, as Putin's comment was that of a complete and utter ass. Also, it's one suspected rape, nine suspected sexual harassments, most of which will most likely fall off the charge sheet as it hasn't even been filed yet. My guess is that most of the latter complaints were just a 'jumping on the bandwagon' issue once the first one got into the headlines. Still, the first few have a basis for filing charges, and that includes the rape charge as far as I know. 'sigh' Once upon a time, we put people who were of an actual cultural value to the country to the presidential seat. Scientists, diplomats, not deadbeat politicians who have to prove they can still get it up by raping their aids. Ah, good to see that our country is moving forward... Now, Rinso! Send me emails to a mailbox I actually use, not my uni junkbox. I've replied to your email, and I'll see what I can do.
[quote:4a8eee8c49="Katcal"][quote:4a8eee8c49="spiky"]SO this means that English speakers don't understand Russian humour... and here was me thinking that Russians don't have a sense of humour to be understood... All is explained and of course if it was a joke then its all OK then :roll:[/quote:4a8eee8c49] Yep, it's a pretty lame-sounding excuse, but still, he's not saying it's a question of sense of humour, but of translation, and humour [i:4a8eee8c49]is [/i:4a8eee8c49]a very difficult thing to translate in general, especially when it's culture dependant. In this particular case, I don't think even translation can save the comment from being sick, no matter what the exact content, especially considered the rest of Putin's actions and declarations, I mean this is at the very best a light coat of icing on a very big rich fruit cake, with or without this comment, he's not a nice person...[/quote:4a8eee8c49] Yes, even with the mildest translation it still sounds like a crap joke. The Jerusalem Post, for example, had a very mild translation and even that sounds shite when you take the context into consideration. Putin is not a nice person. This kind of joke suits him perfectly.
Yes, he's known for the use of pretty strong language in non-formal/ half public context... Same goes for actions, the saying goes... But that's all gossip, of course.
[quote:8f49118918="Hsing"]Yes, he's known for the use of pretty strong language in non-formal/ half public context... Same goes for actions, the saying goes... But that's all gossip, of course.[/quote:8f49118918] Well, he did cut the gas to an entire country in the dead of winter just to show he has some political muscle. Dozens froze to death.
