Religion

What religion you are?
And what religion you would like to be?
This maybe sounds dumm, but it's interesting for discussion.

Christian, Reformed Church, from the 3 sister Churches congregation in South africa. You all have probably never heard of it, it's quite small.

I'll stay with my religion, if it's all the same to you.

Dutch Reformed Church is "NG KerK" I don't think there is a English for "Gereformeerde Kerk"

But ...also Dutch Reformed then...
But I don't go to church for reasons of my own. I thinks it's hypocritical.And this is my own opinion.please don't take offense

I'm thinking maybe Budhism - the way of life is just much more appealling to me than the rigid, conservative and sometimes downright morbid stuff I grew up with...

"Gereformeerde" = = = Reformed

And Buddisim? Thank you for telling me.

Baptised Methodist, went to church in Ponsford starting out with a Baptist minister and ended up with an Apostolic Lutheran minister. I declined to be confirmed, because I was disillusioned with the whole idea of denominations by age 15 or so.

I more or less stopped going to church after highschool except for weddings and funerals, and things like my grandma and great aunt being full immersion baptised in their eighties, and my great nephew being christened in the Episcopal Church. One of the celebrants at that sevice was the White Earth Tribal Chairwoman, Erma Vizenor.

I love God and Jesus and consider myself a Christian, but I don't want to make promises I might not keep and I haven't come across a church that I would be comfortable joining. The politics always become a problem for me.

brought up in Belfast as a prodestant christian
married a man brought up as catholic
l consider myself to be atheist
he considers himself as a believer in a heaven but not the bibles version as such
we would both like to be classified as jedi *hangs head shamefully*

I went to prodestant church a number of times as a child with friends, but I always found it pretty boring and a bit beat up. My Mum's family are prodestant but Mum is an agnostic. My Dad's family are catholic, many of his aunts are nuns, but he is now an atheist.

I've never really felt the need to have religion in my life. I don't know why, but I've always sort of seen through the rituals and all that (not meaning to say that the rituals are meaningless, just that they have none of their intended effect on me). I decided pretty early on that I didn't believe, but only a few years ago that I am an athiest. It just makes more sense to me.

The thing that annoys me most about religion is the way that despite me not having anything to do with it, I still have to suffer the consequences of the churchs' actions. Religion is in politics, its in the public schools and its in the minds of many of my friends. I'm not allowed to voice my opinions in case I offend someone's religion, yet they are full allowed to talk about their religions with no fear of being labelled offensive. I find the fact that many of my classmates think that homosexuality is wrong because their religion has labelled it so very offensive. I don't like the fact that many people think that a person with no religion has no morals, this is also very offensive. Yet I'm not allowed to say that I think that most of the bible is irrelevant to our modern situation and shouldn't be governing the modern political agenda. It probably doesn't help that I live in the bible-belt of Sydney.

Used to be Church of England, just for the choirs, but we stopped going as a family when some genius decided to do happy clappy "spring harvest" nonsense instead of proper music. Curses!

I agree with the Anglican choirs thing - I've been going to church all my life, despite being an atheist, and can't get away simply because I LOVE the music. I sing in college chapel choir and would never stop. My mum's a lay reader (one step below a priest), which makes the family situation a bit strange. In some ways I was glad I was brought up in such a way, because if nothing else it made me really think about what I believe...so many people go through life hardly even wondering about it seriously. Also knowing the bible as well as I do is MASSIVELY useful for my degree (eng lit), so something useful came of it. I wouldn't miss out on the choral music history for anything though...it's sooooo worth it.

I don't object to people talking about their religion, provided they are prepared to do so logically and peaceably; I find hearing about how and why people think as they do very interesting. I do object to my government trying to limit free-speech with 'incitement to religious hatred' and 'anti-blasphemy' legislation though...people don't seem to understand the fact that satire is society's way of keeping a check on itself...self-critical self-examination...trying and testing of ideas. It annoys me when people censure things (like Jerry Springer the Opera, for a prime example, or Behzti (I think it's called...) - probably references only understood by other brits) when they haven't even seen them. If a faith is so insecure that it cannot stand up to well-meant social commentary, which incidentally rarely attacks the beliefs themselves but more often the way they can be mismanaged and interpreted, then surely there's something wrong with that person's faith. After all - that's what Terry does to so much effect in so many books...every book has reference to Gods, belief and religion in it - should THAT be censured?? In some ways, if you look at the parody, it could be more offensive than some satire. The difference is perhaps the knowledge and understanding we have of his meaning.

*rereads long post.* This is playing on my mind this morning, after reading this article.

I'm an agnostic. It's the rational extrapolation of the fact that I cannot attain any form of certainty in my personal beliefs.

semi-spam:

hehe and given your siggy, one might notice the satirical biblical reference...

/semi-spam.

Roman Catholic, though liberally so. There are many values of my church I think make sense, but others that I think are old and outdated.

I'm more of a spiritual person. I love to burn insence and light candles and put on soothing music and just sit and think about things.
I used to have trouble believing in God, as you do when you are a teenager and are trying to find yourself.
And after all the crap that happened in my life last year, I feel as if someone must be watching over me. So now I believe in God.
I'm just not the biggest fan of organized religion. It often leads to problems -- political ones.
So I have a personal relationship with God. That really doesn't need a church. (But I go anyway, since it's warm and the music is good and my parents want company).

However, I think if I had the choice, I would have to go with Jedi Knight too.

EDIT: Deleted the post because i coudnt get the quote to work. Had to do a new post to do the quote. OK, will do in future, Buzzfloyd.

Yes, that is what they call believing in the church rather than in god. In other words, you preform the rituals, prech the good name of the establishment, do things as the church wants you to, meddle in peoples lives to get them to follow the teachings of the church and increasingly get involved in polotics. By doing all that they have forgotten what it is they were actually supposed to do, which is worship and love their god (i deeply apologise for all who are atheists, i know this may sound like a preach to you, but this is just how i feel about it).

I feel that being religeous doesnt mean being a highly respected member of whatever church you ar a part of. I feel that some of the most religeous people ( in themselves) are people who do not allways go to church, who do not allways do things as the church wants them to,and so on. A person can be deeply religeous just by believing in god and following his teachings, without rigourously following the nedded and , sometimes pointless (sorry, my opinion), rituals.

*realizes that i have just ranted* I'ts just something i have felt strongly for for about halve my life. I still go to church and join in, but only to sit and think to myself about god. It gives me comfort in difficult times.

I just don't believe in anything but respect for others.

With everything that goes on in this world, I find belief in a supreme "architect" for it all too difficult a concept.*

I do reserve the right to change my mind however - just don't want anyone trying to change it for me!

*hopefully I won't regret this statement on the way home...

I grew up in the "Berean Fundamentalist Church"--you can guess what they taught. I was convinced for years (because this is what our church implied if never explicitly said) that our church was the only truly "Christian" church in town, and wasn't it just too bad that all those poor sods going to the other so-called Christian churches were all going to Hell? Fortunately, I escaped shortly before leaving home for college, whereupon I attended a Jesuit University for four years. Talk about culture shock. So while my beliefs have had a total shakedown and thorough going-over, I have finally reached some conclusions that let me get out of bed in the morning. Just because the church is screwed up doesn't mean the original message is without merit. The problem comes with trying to draw the line between the two without getting criticized as a "non-believer," and being disregarded as such. Having said all that, there are still many areas in which I simply have to throw my hands up and say, "I don't know"--and hope that in my ignorance, I'm not doing anyone the disservice of prejudice.

On the subject of supernatural phenomena, I would quote Shakespeare--
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Then are dreamt of in your philosophy." Every time I start to think, "That's just not possible," I pause and consider--"Well, why not?"

The only other religion I have encountered that I would consider as a replacement is Buddhism, and quite frankly, there isn't a lot of conflict between the two, at least on a superficial level. Inner peace and harmony in no way contradicts Christian beliefs. (Of course, try to get my mom to understand that, and she'd probably haul me off to have a personal discussion with the pastor... :roll: ) In another galaxy, I'd be a Jedi, hands down, no questions asked. And look at the Code:

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

Is there anything in this that contradicts the desire to live a decent life, or the search for knowledge?

Raised Greek Orthodox. Stay that way because the rituals and the holidays are a good way of getting the family together, I know exactly what I am complaining about when it comes to my religion AND quite frankly, all organised religions are letting me down so I have adopted a "this Earth is going to die, I am going to die, I might as well not behave like an idiot while I am here" attitude.

Ohhh, I win, Dad's family Seventh-Day Adventist, Mom's family Mormon, husband's family Lutheran, and kids walk across the street and go to a Methodist Church (mainly for the choir, daughter sings). I went to a SDA school where conformity was praised and genius was quashed and left very angry with God. I personally have not set foot in a church except for a wedding in 10 years. I would love to find a church to join, but not of any particular religion. Just a group of people who I could feel comfortable and spiritually whole with. In the meantime, I tend to follow many of the Small Gods at the same time and assume that whatever goes around, comes around and act accordingly.

It's curious how Buddhism really seems to be a popular alternative religion for a lot of people. Plenty of folks from school and uni had this "if I was religious, I'd be a Buddhist" idea going on. Is this a result of economic progression, liberalism and so on coming in line with the tenets of Buddhism? Or is it a case of swings and roundabouts, with the current 'fashion' leaning in a Buddhist direction, only to be replaced by the rising star of fundamental Islam (edited to add: "for example")?

Thank you, I really can't spell.

Its funny, I'd never seen it spelt before and most people here pronounce it with a D. I shall know better next time.

I don't know much beyond what we covered in our religion classes in college, but from what I've seen, I can understand how a belief system that values peace and enlightenment would seem a pleasing alternative in a world that is rapidly increasing in pace as well as the number of conflicting messages put forth by society. At least it's a pleasant alternative to the idea that "Life is a series of random accidents, the last of which is fatal." (quote from 'Alison, Who Went Away')


[edit--why does it say "quote" and not "so-and-so said"?]

I always understood buddhism more as a philosophy than a religion* - as far as I know it has no 'God' as such, hence why it can fit with other faiths as people have mentioned here. It's a mode of living, somehow based more on logic than belief, which in our secularised society becomes very attractive. And perhaps the fact that you don't have to deny whatever the faith of your background is to be part of it makes it an easier transition to make, somehow.

*Not that I've really researched that; it's just what I seem to recall.

I am Jewish which is a bit different than other religions because it is both a religion, a culture and a nationality. For example, in Nazi Germany, if you had a Jewish grandparent, you were considered Jewish, and were murdered, regardless of your beliefs about God. You could be an atheist, you could be a Catholic priest, if you had a Jewish grandmother you were gassed because you were a Jew. The Nazis constantly referred to Marx a Jew, even though he was blatantly anti-organised religion in his writings.

Jews have also had their own languages, different from the main language of the country where they live in. For example, my grandparents lived in Poland, and they did not speak Polish but Yiddish (Jewish German). Some Hasidic Jews in the US primarily speak Yiddish. Some Jews from places like Turkey and Syria speak Ladino (Jewish Spanish).

In the past, in many countries, Jews were not considered to have the nationality of the country where they lived, for example if you were a Jew living in Poland, descended from Jews living in Poland, you were not considered Polish.


So regardless of my religious beliefs, I will always be a Jew unless I find something so horrible about Judaism that I formally renounce it. Just like I will always be an American citizen no matter where I live unless I renounce my citizenship.


Also, because Judaism is a culture, people follow the traditions not only because God wants them to, or the bible tells them to, but because that is what people in their culture do. For example, I fast on Yom Kippur, but not because I think God wants me to or I’ll be punished if I don’t. I fast because it’s part of my culture and I think it’s a nice idea, but I don’t do a full 24-hour fast because I have a high metabolism and it’s not worth getting myself sick over, and I don't have a fear of God's punishment or believe that I get "God points" for doing the full 24 hours.

As for my beliefs, sometimes I believe in God, and sometimes I’m agnostic. When I was about eight years old, I decided that it wasn’t worth practicing organised religion for the following reason.

1. Every religion says that all the other religions are wrong and they are the only true religion, and God will be angry with you if you practice the wrong religion and sent you to hell, or some other equally bad punishment. (This was partially inspired by my spending time at a summer camp with some Catholic kids who told me that because I was a Jew, I killed Christ.)

2. There are a very large number of religions in the world, for simplicity’s sake, lets say 100.

3. So whichever religion you pick, there is a 1% chance that it is the right religion, and a 99% chance that you will make God angry and he’ll send you to hell.

4. So you’re better off just not practicing any religion at all.

Interestingly enough, many years later, Homer Simpson said something very similar, which was a response to the guy (I forgot his name) who said that if you had to choose between atheism and believing in God, you’re safer believing in God. I had never heard of that idea when I developed my theory, though. Homer said something like, “but what if you believe in the wrong God and you’re pissing the real God off.”

edit: I find it amusing when people consider different branches of Christianity to be different religions (sorry toadinahole).

edit2: One thing I dislike about organised religion--and this is probably just limited experience, and maybe a lot of people here will say "my church/mosque/synagogue isn't like that"--but from my experience people who go to houses of worship seem to do it more to socialise and show off their clothes than to worship God.

In Judaism, traditionally on the high holy days you get dressed up in your best clothes and walk around town. I used to do this for many years; it was fun dressing up with my friends. Then one year, I just felt like not getting dressed up and going out in jeans. I lived in a Jewish neighborhood; everyone knew my family and knew I was Jewish. I got lots of disapproving looks and whispers, and I thought to myself "What if I were really poor, and couldn't afford nice clothes, and all I had to wear was a pair of jeans?" That probably doesn't happen everywhere, but it really turned me off against organised religion.

That may be more related to Simpsons worship.

Actually, I don't really have any problems with the Bible. For its time, it was remarkably progressive. I have problems with people who fail to see the Bible in proper context.

or the proper translation.

Anyways, I'm christian protestant, thanks to King Gustav Vasa who didn't think that he had enough power as it was so her ursurped the church as well. I'm a member of the Swedish church and I go every now and then. I'm not a firm believer but I don't think I want to live in a world without a higher being in some form... some where.

The church and/or religion has for many many years been THE way in controlling masses of people. Nowdays we have news. :roll:

Haven't found the concrete form of words online, but your post Mynona reminded me of the following by Karl Marx, as you probably meant it to...

“Religion is an opiate of the masses”.

Not sure 'opiate' is the right word, or if it's entirely true, but it's an interesting thought...

Not a lot of people can see it in the proper context. The question - what is the proper context?

We are all influenced by our respective histories, cultures and so forth - it colours our interpretation of the Bible and it's message.

Jewish. Orthodox Jewish, to be specific. I grew up in the Soviet Union, and the good old USSR looked onto religion as an opiate to the masses. It preferred the state to be an opiate to the masses.

So, there was a grand total of one legal synagogue in Russia, which was in Moscow, and even then going to it was considered a very bad thing to do if you weren't too old to change your outdated views, as good communists thought of it.

So, my dad went to the synagougue now and then, mainly to try and understand what being Jewish meant. He got into a few records, got followed around by unkind people now and then, but didn't go into serious trouble. He was lucky.

Then, we left the collapsing Soviet Union, and decided to spend our lives in Israel. Until the age of 10 or so, between the life I had in Russia and the secular schooling system we Israel has, I didn't know much about religion, and didn't really care.

I became religious at about 14, along with my family. I haven't looked back much since.


I've seen aspects of organized religion that don't appeal to me, and I've seen aspects of it that do. I've seen con artists use what is considered the mystical side of Judaism for profit, and I've seen synagogue politics.

One thing I like about Judaism is that it doesn't say that this is the right path, but that it says that it's the right path for Jews. Nationality, culture, religion. It's very hard to seperate the three for Jews, as they have been entwined together from just about Day One.

I follow a set of rules, a set of laws that I believe was defined by the one above, and by some wise men below who knew what they were doing. I don't pick and mix, taking what I like from those rules and not what I don't. The way I see it, it's all or nothing, and that's the way I personally prefer it.

That is what I mean really. We should understand that it's unlikely that anyone can ever truly capture the spirit in which it was written and as a consequence we should be open to other interpretations. Having said that, I don't believe in it so I can't really tell people how to handle it.

I was brought up as a Jehovah's Witness..........dont hurt me!!

I probably would be now but that i'm too bone idle to devote myself to anything other than the persuit of money, sex and all things yumma!!!

By the way is it just me or do all girls brought up in as good christian girls grow up to be nymphomaniacs???

:evil: :badgrin:

Interesting. That is one of the things that I dislike about Judaism. Growing up an American, I have a very strong sense of democracy/egalitarianism (I am not saying that only American culture promotes these beliefs), and I can't get around the idea of different rules for Jews and non-Jews, that it's OK for a non-Jew to turn on an electric light on Saturday, but a Jew can't do it. Or that only Jews have to keep kosher.

The idea that all human beings are equal under the law, and the same law applies to everyone--be it secular law or religous law--is a very, very strong component of my view of the world.

Edit: Roman, regarding picking and mixing:

"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow men. That is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary."

(No, that quote was not by Jesus. Roman knows that.)

Explain the entire Torah while standing on one leg Old Hilel was asked, and that he did. This doesn't mean that the other laws are invalid, just that they are there so that that one law can be held with certainty.

I separate religious and democratic laws, as I quite frankly see no reason to view them in the same context. I believe that Jews were chosen to set an example, to be a "People of Priests", as it were. We were chosen not to force a certain way of life on everyone, but to show that aspects of it were a good way to live.

And we fucked time and time again, mainly in that basicmost and main law you quoted earlier.

Not al lot of people think like this. Thats why we have fundamentalism...
I had the opportunity to have philosophy as a subject for 3 years at University...and i must say for one thing it has taught me is to think and keep an open mind...OK thats two things..

That is actually something I find a bit scary. Well, scary probably isn't the right word .. let's just say I dislike that.

It seems to imply that Jew=Israeli, and vice versa. So if you aren't a Jew, then you shouldn't be Israeli. (I don't really know if this is the case, I am just saying, this is what I deduce from your statement.) And coming from a secular country, I find that disturbing.

Edit: Marcia seems to have raised the same point.

Heh. My situation was identical to Roman up until the time my family left the then-Communist Ukraine.

Okay, maybe not identical... My father's family is Russian and Christian (Eastern Orthodox). My mother's folks are Jewish by nationality and range from fiercely atheist to lukewarm agnostic. I was raised without any religion (but with TONS of superstition to fill up the space - always knock on wood, sit down for a minute before leaving on a long trip etc).

Immigrants are apparently considered ripe conversion fodder. Not surprisingly - they're usually confused and culture-shocked. At different times, we were approached by Baptists, Jehovah's witnesses, Orthodox Jews, Conservative Jews, Scientologists, Messianic Jews and whatever branch of Christianity was behind my brother's relatively-short stint in a Bible club. Nothing stuck, as far as I know. (except that I went from atheist to a nervously spiritual)

edited to add: Rinso, tell your Muslim friend not to worry . A thin, light-colored scarf will actually help keep her cool and heatstroke-free in the summer!

I don't find the idea of Judaism as a nationality disturbing, if you think of nationality in terms of ancestry, rather than in terms of politics. (Technically a "nation" consists of people, a "state" is a political unit. We confuse the two because most of us belong to nation-states.) For example, someone born in America of Italian parents might practice Italian traditions and consider their nationality to be Italian-American, but not approve of the Italian government or perhaps not even know anything at all about Italian politics or want to know anything about it.

What bothers me is the fact that Judaism contains special rules that Jews must obey, but that don't apply to non-Jews at all.

The problem is that, in my experience, many Jews seem to think that the other laws are just as important as, or even more important than, the one law. For example, I've known of cases where children would refuse to eat in their own parents' homes because their parents didn't keep to their standard of kosher. And refusing to shake a woman's hand because she might be menstruating is certainly not treating another human being the way you would like to be treated. (I know, the Hillel quote refers to "men", but I am going to have to take it as a generic term for "human", otherwise as a woman, I have no place in Judaism at all.)

This reminds me I believe that Hitler's grandmother was Jewish. So he could gas himself in self-hatred :roll:

I believe I've alread stated my views on the previous board... After a childhood spent going to all different types of christian churches, Anglican, Lutheran, Pentacostal, Baptist and Catholic (I know they sort of overlap but they had different churches where I grew up)... And living in a Muslim country for a year I am without religion but I can't shake those christian values they drum into you as you grow up, eg Christmas and Easter, Sunday as a day of rest, love they neighbour and Adam and Eve. Those things kind of stick, even if you think the story is bollcks (which I do) they tend to make up the fabric of the culture you live...

I got the impression that non-Israeli Jews see Israel as a kind of a postponed homeland - and thus a place to be concerned about - as opposed to seeing it as something permanently left behind...

Yep, which is fine .. I was wondering, what do non-Jewish Israelis think? And what do Jewish Israelis think of non-Jewish Israelis?

Suggested reading: Philip Roth's "The Plot Against America"

Interesting- where did you read this?

As far as I know, Judaism doesn't have a Hell... You just don't go to Heaven.

There is no hell, but the basic idea is correct.

For comparison, let's take Grace's example of Catholicism. According to Catholicism, there are certain rules you have to obey. Non-Catholics don't obey them, but that's only because they weren't raised Catholic, so they don't know better. Any person, regardless of their religion, would have more of a chance of going to heaven if they followed the rules. It's just a matter of educating them.

On the other hand, in Judaism there are laws that apply to everyone (don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, etc.). But there are also laws that apply only to Jews--keeping kosher, not working on the Sabbath, etc. It doesn't matter whether or not non-Jews follow them, the laws don't apply for them. A non-Jew can eat pork for breakfast, lunch and dinner--it's not going to make his relationship with God better or worse.

That's what bothers me. If, for example, Jews are not supposed to eat pork because it's considered unclean (in a religous way, not physically unclean), but it's OK for a non-Jew to eat, then it's like saying that non-Jews don't have to be as clean as Jews. (It reminds me of the caste system in India, with the Pariahs, the lowest caste, being the ones who are allowed to touch garbage.) Or if the Sabbath is holy, but only Jews are supposed to observe the Sabbath, it's like saying non-Jews aren't capable of holiness.

I think part of the reason that I see things in this way is that America had a racial caste system for a long time, and the after-effects of this had, and still has a very strong effect on Americans. Because of this history, I just have this sense that whenever you treat two groups of people differently, it means that you inherently believe one of them to be superior to the other.

I think it has more to do with Jews historically having others try to force their religion on them, they don't want to do the reverse. Jehovah's Witnesses don't have a problem with trying to influence others, even when they're a minority. And of course Christian missionaries are minorities in whatever country they happen to be preaching in.

The problem is that when you get into the idea of there being special rules for Jews, you get into the idea of Jews being specially "chosen" by God, which has serious implications. There are Jewish people who believe that God favours Jews. I remember when I was in a Jewish summer camp once listening to one of the counselor announce that only Jews are going to heaven--while I was standing next to a friend who wasn't Jewish.

Yes, Catholics believe that God favors those who practice Catholicism, Methodists believe God favors those who follow Methodist practices; but Christianity is open to converts. They really just seem to want you to believe.


It's very difficult to convert to Judaism, on the other hand. And because Judaism is so focused on nationality/ancestry (there are debates over whether you're a Jew if your father is Jewish but your mother isn't--whether you even believe in God doesn't enter into it) this leads to other, serious issues.

I'm afraid it's not like that here - Generally it's like what Marcia said- obviously religon is politicised here so generally the feelings among Unionists and Republicans would be

''We're all God's children..." it's said with an added postscipt:

"as long as you believe in the same things we do and worship the same way that we do"