Walking home yesterday, I saw a little girl (she looked about 8, 10 at best) wearing a t-shirt with the text "I know what boys want." Now I am the first to admit I am a touch naive when it comes to these things, but this really shocked me. I mentioned this to Andalusian in an MSN conversation and something similar had happened to her (even worse since there was a second girl wearing a t-shirt that said "tasty"). The ensuing discussion unearthed the following questions: What happens here? Where do the parents come in? And if they don't, are these girls consciously picking out these T-shirts? If that is what is happening, what does that say about youth culture? That would make this the effect and the current youth culture the cause. This should then be a glaring warning sign. What message is the new generation getting from the media? And where has the moral responsibility of all the companies that sell products to these kids gone? Also, how does this fit into the cultural spectrum? Sexual liberation, with the 70s as catalyst, seems progressively more apparent in every new generation. I can't say I am very much in touch with my generation, but I do feel that, in broad lines, it is a stepping stone to this one in terms of gender relations and objectification. Andalusian suggested the current conservative trend (Bush & family values, Europe's anti-immigrant sentiment, Australia's religious culture, New Labour) is a reaction to this. I agree with her, but I wonder what this will lead to. Does anyone see this culture taking over around them? Or will this lead to a culture of hypocrisy with ostensible outward respect for family values while retaining personal sexual freedom? What are everyone's opinions and personal experiences?
Now I agree with CY. There is most definitely a culture where people are more willing to push the boundries. I always find it frightening when I see children talking about their make-up and how many poeple they have 'pulled' a 11 or 12. It's interesting to point out a parrallel phenomenon to this in places like China, Japan, Korea and even (sort of) Singapore where people are thrown cute cuddly toys and sweet little accessories which promote the world as a lovely, wonderful, everyone and thing is good and smiley type of place. I have this Korean friend who is increadibly ignorant about the real world and is convinced that the world is full of cute pink pluffy hair accessories and kids toys - What the more westernised places would see as something for a 8 - 10 your old - and now turns away making silly faces everytime we turn to a sensitive subject. It's sweet on the whole - but occasionally you sit back and wonder if she has a clue what it's like to be a 'grown up'. The culture varies really. On the whole it tends to be the more westernised countries who you see wearing things like CY's example. Media really does play a large role in the whole scenario. It's what what we see everyday and accept into daily life that matters and now we have a huge force comming at the world with images of what 'normal' people should do. The problem lies in targeting children and throwing ideas such as 'I know what boy's want'. THere is little morallity to be said for that. It's not something that is considered much in advertising - unless it's what they are trying to sell. THen again, people keep complaining that media has little regard for morals - but there are people who accept their ideas. People still buy these t-shirts and look at the ads. Ads go for what people want to see so they can sell something - but people look at ads for what they want. It's a vicious circle. The fact is - culture shifts. It always does - so yes it may be less moral and some aspects may be ambiguous - but at the end of the day it will change. Will morallity continue to decrease? Could do. Then the next generation will go 'where are the good old days when people would only wear those simple t-shirts with silly messages on them'. And life will go on.
As Susan says in Thief of Time, "I really think people ought to have to pass a [i:9e57fb3cb6]proper[/i:9e57fb3cb6] exam before they're allowed to be parents. Not just the practical, I mean." My area is plagued with vicious little toe rags with nothing better to do than roam the streets due to extremly dysfunctional home lives, kids who look more to television characters for moral guidance than to their parents. This is an area where a bunch of 13 year old joy riders(car thieves) hijacked a vehicle, drove it down a main road, stopped to get out and kick a passer by to death before returning to the car and driving it into a tree. An extreme case true, but one amongst many it seems lately. The system isnt just having problems it's collapsing in smoking ruin and it's going to take a lot to turn around the moral values of a generation. I dont know what big measures could be taken but I cant help but see that the media needs to be working to help the situation rather than hinder it. Sad as it is, television now plays a part in kid's moral guidance and when you look at the sort of figureheads glamorised and popularised by the media is it any wonder they choose role models that would make past generations shake their heads in dismay? When there are people like Jordan/Katie Price (glamor model famous for taking her top off in public, a lot) and Wayne Rooney(English football player who sleeps with prostitutes and has a huge gambling debt), forever splashed over magazines and on television reporting how famous and rich they are, is it any wonder children are growing up to be the way they are now? One factor amongst many but todays free press and media institutions wind me up no end. End of the day though it's all down to the parents and the home life they have that decides how children end up, reliance on television and outside influence can only happen if the parents input is lacking. They suggested chemical neutering as a way to lower the numbers of pigeons in London at one stage... imagine the wonders of chemical neutering on anybody with a criminal history... :badgrin:
Kids want to be like adults, and if they see adults behaving like this (or even older children) that's what they will mimic. Sad, but if adults were laughing out loud at t-shirts like this, I think children would be less inclined to wear them.
True, and well said. The way I understood CYs first post though, he was also asking if the "grown up world" was kind of "sexualizing" the style of even relatively small children, which is probably automatically happening when they, unhindered by their parents, and often enough without really knowing what they are doing, imitate a grown up world that presents themselves like that. As a mother, I'd start by asking my daughter, without any mockery, wether she knew what her T-Shirt says, and what she thinks the answer was. There'd be an interesting dialogue, I guess. By the way, if it was an eight year old kid, someone must have bought her that shirt, right?
I think you can look at it in context too. If you're 8 years old you don't attach the same meaning to phrases as an adult does, not quite anyway, and the phrases on the T-shirts are directed at other 8 year olds, or whatever age the person wearing the T-shirt is. It shouldn't really 'do' anything for someone who is older unless they have something mentally wrong with them.
[quote:3767fd378c="Hsing"]The way I understood CYs first post though, he was also asking if the "grown up world" was kind of "sexualizing" the style of even relatively small children, which is probably automatically happening when they, unhindered by their parents, and often enough without really knowing what they are doing, imitate a grown up world that presents themselves like that. As a mother, I'd start by asking my daughter, without any mockery, wether she knew what her T-Shirt says, and what she thinks the answer was. There'd be an interesting dialogue, I guess. By the way, if it was an eight year old kid, someone must have bought her that shirt, right?[/quote:3767fd378c] Yeah, that was what I meant. "Kids wanting to be like adults" is a constant in society, yet you did not see these shirts on kids a few decades ago. That means something in society has changed. Something in our culture. After all, children are a reflection of what we bring to the forefront. The kids aren't really the problem here. I'd say the problem lies with the people who are shaping the ideas of these kids, but are unaware of their responsibility. Influences like the ones Watchman and fairyliquid bring up (media, cartoons, toys, unprepared parents) should be re-examined, especially the industries that specifically target children. I think a problem like this will only go away if society manages to temper some of the excesses of sexual liberation.
[quote:2b1486b16e="Maljonic"]I think you can look at it in context too. If you're 8 years old you don't attach the same meaning to phrases as an adult does, not quite anyway, and the phrases on the T-shirts are directed at other 8 year olds, or whatever age the person wearing the T-shirt is.[/quote:2b1486b16e] The thing is, most kids will understand that the slogan is designed to be suggestive, even if they don't completely understand the implications. The slogans themselves are directed at others the same age, but also to the world in general. Through mimicking what is perceived as adult behaviour, these kids are telling everyone that they are grown up enough to understand what they are suggesting. Shirts like the ones mentioned are sold in shops supposedly aimed at older teenagers. Realistically, it is pre-teens who buy the clothes there (not least because of the actual size of the clothes). Slogans like those mentioned are not designed for 8 year olds, they are designed to give small children the illusion that they are teenagers and can actually relate to the lifestyle being sold to them. [quote:2b1486b16e="Maljonic"]It shouldn't really 'do' anything for someone who is older unless they have something mentally wrong with them.[/quote:2b1486b16e] It does not matter that normal people wouldn't find anything sexually attractive about small children. The important bit is that the kids are choosing, through the influences of society or whatever, to sexualise themselves. Which is just wrong.
[quote:332be2cc22="Cynical_Youth"]The kids aren't really the problem here. I'd say the problem lies with the people who are shaping the ideas of these kids, but are unaware of their responsibility. Influences like the ones Watchman and fairyliquid bring up (media, cartoons, toys, unprepared parents) should be re-examined, especially the industries that specifically target children. I think a problem like this will only go away if society manages to temper some of the excesses of sexual liberation.[/quote:332be2cc22] The industries, be it the media or otherwise, realize their responsibility. They just don't care. Money is the new ideal, and indifference to the consequences is the rule of the jungle. Furthermore, any society where Britney Spears is venerated and idolized is fucked up. Big time. Thing is, money rules. Rich people finance idiots like Spears etc, who then become rich in their own right. The end result? MTV culture, and pushing every single limit to get the public to hand over another buck. Changing this will take time lots of time, lots of effort, and it will be resisted at every term by the rich indifference of the new Rich Idiot generation of idols.
