From the "A Thought"-thread: [quote:e6e7b86532="Smoking_GNU"]Just to add a minor point, i don't want to hijack this tread or anything but it seems all the "old hands" will be reading this, could anyone point me in the right direction of a good translator on the web? I want to translate a song to post here from [i:e6e7b86532]Afrikaans[/i:e6e7b86532] to english, but non that i can find on the web can translate from/to [i:e6e7b86532]afrikaans[/i:e6e7b86532], and i am not sure i would be able to translate very well. :?: I am also looking fo a translator that will be able to convey meaning, not just translate directly into the most appropriate word. I don't want to end up with the type of stuff you get from poor Japanese-English translations. [i:e6e7b86532]Instructions on a set of knives: [b:e6e7b86532]Keep out of children![/b:e6e7b86532][/i:e6e7b86532] EDIT: Added the second paragraph.[/quote:e6e7b86532] [quote:e6e7b86532="Hsing"]Smoking GNU, lets create a language thread. I will later come up with some questions about the English language in general that have been bothering me lately, and details from the books where a dictionary doesn't help, and you can ask translating questions. I'll post my answer there. [/quote:e6e7b86532] Hsing: Your wish is my command. Smoking GNu: I've never found a translator able to understandably translate from Dutch to English or vice versa. Their underlying rules are so completely different. I'm betting Afrikaans, as it's based on dutch, will be just as difficult. Machine-translation is very limited, especially if you are trying to translate poems/songs/words with deeper meaning. For example: The dutch word "Gezellig" is a word that's incredibly difficult to translate. Cozy"is what is usually given as a translation, but it does not convey the whole meaning. "Gezellig" is a word you use to describe the feeling you have when you're with friends or family, you're having fun and the atmosphere is good. When, for example you say "It has been 'gezellig'." when leaving a party, you are complimenting the host on the overall atmosphere of the party. Big events are almost never "gezellig", it's a "small gathering"-thing. A human translator would always be your best bet. A community can provide that. Try and translate the words first, explain the meanings of the words and sentences and then a community (we?) can come up with a translation.
I've always thought "convivial" a good translation for "gezellig". It's a little too formal and it doesn't quite catch the cosiness that is also implied, but it's close. I'd love to help do some Afrikaans -> English translations, btw.
thank you, guys. I will surely ask you C_Y to help me in future. I won't ask you to do it now, as i am very busy at the moment. My Exams start in 1.5 weeks time an i have to start studying. Maby afterwards, ok?
Another reason translations don't always work is because, even if the meaning of a word can be translated, the eloquence of the text is in the sounds of words; or sometimes it's even the shapes and appearances of words, so much so that reading a special line of text aloud that relies on the way it looks can ruin the meaning.
I think web translators are mostly for very basic, tourist-y type translations: How much does this cost? I would like some bread. Where can I find a bathroom? etc. They aren't very good at handling anything that involves creativity.
I agree with the others... babelfish and the usually mutilate every complex sentence with more than four or five words. A good online dictionary, and asking someone in person is still the best way.
Translations form Afrikaans to English has always been a problem. Afrikaans is a very descriptive langauge and also very ambigious (especially if you have a gutter mind like me) in Translation you tend to lose the nuances and hidden meanings of words and concepts as well as connoctations... But it works visa versa as well Like for example what the dutch call a cat we can't even use in polite conversation or the translation of a box (cardbord) into afrikaans is also considered impolite so we just call it a box. So mostly Smoking Gnu - ask me thats what big sister is for.
Can someone do a better French to English translation than this one from dictionary.com? [list:a9a926b2a1]Nous n’irons plus au bois, Les lauriers sont coupes We will not go any more to wood, the bay-trees are cuts[/list:u:a9a926b2a1]
[quote:a897e99f7d="Cynth"]Like for example what the dutch call a cat we can't even use in polite conversation[/quote:a897e99f7d] What? "Kat"?
I have Indian boys in my class(came to Sweden in August), they come from Punjab and speak Punjabi and Hindi. There are no dictionaries in Swedish of either Punjabi or Hindi. I found on-line dictionaries to English but they are not easy to use. I tried 'long for' but no answer and 'long' resulted in in a long row of beutiful letters which made the boys more confused. How can I do?
[quote:aa7545921c="Maljonic"]Can someone do a better French to English translation than this one from dictionary.com? [list:aa7545921c]Nous n’irons plus au bois, Les lauriers sont coupes We will not go any more to wood, the bay-trees are cuts[/list:u:aa7545921c][/quote:aa7545921c] [color=blue:aa7545921c]Worldlingo[/color:aa7545921c] has the same. Trying to get the reverse translation of the usually accepted "We'll go no longer to the woods, the bays are sere" provides equally unhelpful results!
[quote:b5de8ae687="Cynth"]No Teplon Not Kat- we call it a "kat" as well The other one that begins with p.... [/quote:b5de8ae687] Indeed..... and when the supermarket owners in Aberdeen in Scotland (which has a sizeable Dutch population, school etc) hit on the name "Krazy Kuts" they caused a few raised eyebrows!
Smoking Gnu will understand this one... The word for cat in dutch that begins with p is a curse word in Afrikaans - for us it means ( how can I put this diplomatically) a certain part of female anatomy which is not usually talked about in polite conversation... And used as a curse word it usually means your something of an idiot in local slang... AGGG this is so complicated to explain to non Afrikaans speaking people, its a very interesting langauge - but soooo dirty sometimes. Afrikaans started out as a "kitchen language" When Jan van Riebeeck came to Southren Africa to establish a seaport at Cape Town the local people was employed as servants - Afrikaans is a 'mengelmoes' or smorgasboard of dutch, english, french, arabic and malaysian- the servants started to talk it because their employers could not understand Khoi or the langauge the Bushmen used. I like my home langauge - it's poetic when it wants to be and absolutely crass when you really need to be. :lol:
[quote:edcf9649c9="Maljonic"]Can someone do a better French to English translation than this one from dictionary.com? [list:edcf9649c9]Nous n’irons plus au bois, Les lauriers sont coupes We will not go any more to wood, the bay-trees are cuts[/list:u:edcf9649c9][/quote:edcf9649c9] Personally I'd go for something like: "No more we'll see the woods Where laurels have fallen" The internet offers these: "No more into the woods with you I'll go, They've cut those lovely laurels down, you know." Anna Cole "Now we shall never go again into those glades - the gentle laurels have been felled where once we strayed." Peter H. Cole "No more we'll walk 'neath trees above, they've felled the laurels that we loved." Peter H. Cole "No more we'll see that wood - they've felled the trees. Now would" Peter H. Cole "We'll go no more to the woods, the laurels are culled. " Timothy Ades As you can see, those are lines difficult lines to translate. Only one of these has the right meter and even then only because it pulls in "Now would". Edit to add: "Poes" as an ambiguous word is not unique to Afrikaans. "Pussy" has the same connotations.
[quote:57c1fa12d0="Cynth"] it means ( how can I put this diplomatically) a certain part of female anatomy which is not usually talked about in polite conversation...[/quote:57c1fa12d0] Ahhh, like dear old scunthrope. The direct Afrikaans translation to be exact.
[quote:5bd9701437="Cynical_Youth"] Edit to add: "Poes" as an ambiguous word is not unique to Afrikaans. "Pussy" has the same connotations.[/quote:5bd9701437] Same connoctation yes ... but I almost fell of my chair and sprayed coke all over the PC when I saw that you wrote it down.... The connoctation that we have to it is much worse...like I said a curse word but not one like sh*t thats tame in a certain sense but one that mostly non-cultured people use Jeez I sound like such a snob...
Cynth: I knew what the word was, I was just having a bit of a joke with you. Poes means cat, but the diminutive "Poesje" has the same meaning as "pussy". Then again "Muts" (Lit.: (Wooly) Hat) has gotten that same ambigious meaning.
[quote:d3b5f2ceaa="Cynical_Youth"][quote:d3b5f2ceaa="Maljonic"]Can someone do a better French to English translation than this one from dictionary.com? [list:d3b5f2ceaa]Nous n’irons plus au bois, Les lauriers sont coupes We will not go any more to wood, the bay-trees are cuts[/list:u:d3b5f2ceaa][/quote:d3b5f2ceaa] Personally I'd go for something like: "No more we'll see the woods Where laurels have fallen" The internet offers these: "No more into the woods with you I'll go, They've cut those lovely laurels down, you know." Anna Cole "Now we shall never go again into those glades - the gentle laurels have been felled where once we strayed." Peter H. Cole "No more we'll walk 'neath trees above, they've felled the laurels that we loved." Peter H. Cole "No more we'll see that wood - they've felled the trees. Now would" Peter H. Cole "We'll go no more to the woods, the laurels are culled. " Timothy Ades As you can see, those are lines difficult lines to translate. Only one of these has the right meter and even then only because it pulls in "Now would". Edit to add: "Poes" as an ambiguous word is not unique to Afrikaans. "Pussy" has the same connotations.[/quote:d3b5f2ceaa] I think this one is the best tanslation to my mind, though not very poetic: [quote:d3b5f2ceaa]"We'll go no more to the woods, the laurels are culled. " Timothy Ades[/quote:d3b5f2ceaa]
[quote:5a1931ec06="Cynth"]Same connoctation yes ... but I almost fell of my chair and sprayed coke all over the PC when I saw that you wrote it down.... The connoctation that we have to it is much worse...like I said a curse word but not one like sh*t thats tame in a certain sense but one that mostly non-cultured people use Jeez I sound like such a snob...[/quote:5a1931ec06] I don't think it's snobbishness. It's more of a cultural thing probably. In the Netherlands there isn't really a curse word that is taboo in informal conversation (well.. not in the informal conversations I usually have ). Maybe "kanker" (translated: "cancer", Dutch people like to use diseases to curse with for some reason), but in other parts of the country (Den Haag springs to mind) this a lot more acceptable. I'm not completely sure about this as my experience with English culture is limited, but I think that in England a word like "cunt" is much more likely to shock people than "kut" or even "kanker "in Dutch. It's part of the more direct Dutch culture I think. Maljonic: That is the translation that I think is closest to the original text in meaning. The meter is off completely, though. I came up with this one as well: "No more we'll walk the woods Where laurels lie broken"
[quote:43b3a8a697="Tephlon"]Cynth: I knew what the word was, I was just having a bit of a joke with you. Poes means cat, but the diminutive "Poesje" has the same meaning as "pussy". Then again "Muts" (Lit.: (Wooly) Hat) has gotten that same ambigious meaning.[/quote:43b3a8a697] O the joy of ambigious language and a gutter mind....it's endless fun
[quote:3733902135="Cynical_Youth"] I don't think it's snobbishness. It's more of a cultural thing probably. In the Netherlands there isn't really a curse word that is taboo in informal conversation (well.. not in the informal conversations I usually have ). It's part of the more direct Dutch culture I think. [/quote:3733902135] Afrikaans culture is very funny. I work on a mine in the Southern part of Namibia. Miners in any culture are a bit rough around the edges but as I have learned - very good people at heart. Just a little bit "bar" or crass I like direct - I've always been a direct person. But Afrikaans is a conservative and non conservative language and culture all rolled into one. You adapt to the people you are with. Other one for me in afrikaans - box - doos. Also female connoctation. We seem to have al lot of those....
[quote:cdfd8170e1="Trollmother"]I have Indian boys in my class(came to Sweden in August), they come from Punjab and speak Punjabi and Hindi. There are no dictionaries in Swedish of either Punjabi or Hindi. I found on-line dictionaries to English but they are not easy to use. I tried 'long for' but no answer and 'long' resulted in in a long row of beutiful letters which made the boys more confused. How can I do?[/quote:cdfd8170e1] You could try translating 'yearn' into Punjabi using an English to Punjabi translator. Cynth and Tephlon, we have both the words pussy and cunt as slang for female genitalia. The impact of the words depends upon your region and social background. Where I live, pussy is not a very harsh word to use to your friends, but you wouldn't say it to your grandma. Cunt is a word that my friends use quite a bit, but it still provokes a gasp; a recent national survey showed that it was considered the worst swearword by English people, beating fuck by a considerable margin. If you live with people who routinely swear a lot, the words lose some of their edge, but neither are words you would use in polite society. However, 'cunt' is definitely worse than 'pussy'. Edit to clarify: You [i:cdfd8170e1]could[/i:cdfd8170e1] use the word pussy to your grandma, but she'd probably think you were talking about a kitty-cat.
Thanks for the suggestion Buzzfloyd, but it also didn't work, the dictionary had never heard about it.
