This post was inspired by this - Avgi can, I am sure, give us an idea of Greek views in general on this, but how do other people feel? Personally, when I die, once any useful bits have been taken out and transplanted into someone who needs them (though whoever gets my liver will probably have to think about an increase in his/her drinks bill just to keep it in the shape it is accustomed to!) then I want the rest of me burned. Why take up space to stash away bodies? This does also remind me that I need to make sure my brother knows this as he is now my next of kin, since my mother died in September and my father died in January!
Make sure the hole is already dug, drop them into my trunk, and head for the hills... Oh wait, that wasnt what you meant. I wish to be harvested and cremated as well. I figure why let somewhat good organs go to waste? I wont be needing them. I dont want to take up space in a grave either. Put me in an urn and leave me on the mantle, spread my ashes at sea, smoke my ashes to try to get a buzz off all the drugs I did as a kid, meh, I wont care what you do with me at that point. :lol:
I have a donor card which I keep in my wallet at all times in case anything should happen. The way I see it, if you die before your time, at least you can prevent it happending to someone else.
I have the donor card too, and of course.. smoke my ass and scatter me somewhere to fertilize something. Though, human ashes must be full of dangerous stuff, if I think of all the stuff we consume during out lives...
I shall be interned inside other people through the joy of organ donation... Saving that put me ina big oven inside a gingerbread cottage and my ashes can be used to smoke herring.
I've been meaning to get a donor card for many years, and although most people who know me are informed that I would like anything useful to be taken and used, I am also rather depressed by the thought that there is so much wrong with me, that my parts probably wouldn't be of any use and would be refused by the doctors, which would be the ultimate humiliation, even seen from a fluffy cloud in heaven or a tar pit in hell, wherever I end up... I already get told to piss off when I want to donate blood (there is a law here that you can't donate blood if you have spent over 6 months in Britain before 1995, and also I have hormone problems, and therefore spend most of my time popping pills), and the thought of not being healthy enough to have anything good enough to donate really brings me down... :roll: As for burial, I think I'd like to be buried or scattered at sea... being at sea, I guess my flesh could at least feed the fish, who are less picky than doctors when it comes to finding a use for dead people :cooler: although of course they could use my body for research, finding out how I actually managed to stay alive for so long would probably be fascinating research... :roll: But then again, knowing me, I'll probably end up being buried alongside my husband, whoever goes first. I can't imagine spending all eternity anywhere far from him.
Well, I'm going to donate my brain to science so they can shelve it next to Einstein's. But the rest of me will be cremated and made into a diamond in the process described here.
[quote:c11c4057e3="Katcal"]I already get told to piss off when I want to donate blood (there is a law here that you can't donate blood if you have spent over 6 months in Britain before 1995,[/quote:c11c4057e3] Why?? Should I be offended? I want to be cremated, for many reasons, a few of them good. Remind me never to live in Greece. Although, I do like an optional system we have: some people are buried a special part of the cemetery where, instead of headstones, they plant a tree. I think that's rather nice, if you're not too bothered about relatives trying to find your grave. I recently read about a new idea the Swedish have had, for freeze-drying bodies! I might have got the link from a thread on this board actually, I can't remember, but here it is for anyone who doesn't already know!
I definately don't want to be buried in a grave, I think graveyards can be creepy (not places of beauty), although some people like them ! Don't fancy being in an urn on a shelf somewhere, something else to dust.. Already had thoughts about a woodland burial where a tree is planted. trees give life, and I so love the idea of being part of nature. A long time ago I fancied going the American Indian way - on a platform open to the elements (bird food) but I think I was going through an 'anal retentive' phase at the time. :lol:
[quote:88d82dd312="Hermia"][quote:88d82dd312="Katcal"]I already get told to piss off when I want to donate blood (there is a law here that you can't donate blood if you have spent over 6 months in Britain before 1995,[/quote:88d82dd312] Why?? Should I be offended? [/quote:88d82dd312] I'd guess at something to do with KJD/BSE/Mad cow, but it is only a guess...
Indeed, it has to do with mad cow and British livestock practices. Same for certain other European countries.
Right, so people would prefer to die because there are no available compatible hearts or whatever than take a teeny tiny risk that this English heart may have CJD?? The scare's been much more widespread than the actual disease!
[quote:6b1e859b6b="Ba"]Indeed, it has to do with mad cow and British livestock practices. Same for certain other European countries.[/quote:6b1e859b6b] That's mostly in Wales...
[quote:88534bd4c8="Hermia"]Right, so people would prefer to die because there are no available compatible hearts or whatever than take a teeny tiny risk that this English heart may have CJD?? The scare's been much more widespread than the actual disease![/quote:88534bd4c8] Yep, Ba is right, and I agree, Hermia, it's dead stupid, they're always lacking blood, they go around moaning about it, and then they turn willing people away on the offchance that they may just have CJD... They test the blood samples for almost everything anyway, maybe CJD can't be detected in blood I don't know, but it sure pisses me off...
This legislation shows what potty heads are legislators are. Up till now, no cremation was done because there were no laws concerning the function and the prerequisites for cremation facilities. Think of it this way, if there are no regulations stating how much personel and of what specialties a rest home must have, no permits of operation can be issued. Cremation is a valid way of disposing of a body, And a very economical one, since the law makes burial for three years mandatory. In the meantime, the family has to pay rental space for the grave. The Greek Orthodox church considers cremation a loss of revenue and is still opposing it even though there is absolutely no dogmatic reason against cremation. People throughout greek history rarely got cremated if only because there are not enough trees in some places. So, it said "you want cremation? fine, but don't expect us to give your urns a religious funeral". Morons... Donating organs is a completely different matter. If more people volunteered, then maybe black market organ selling wouldn't be such a problem. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/01/0116_040116_EXPLorgantraffic.html http://www.swlearning.com/economics/policy_debates/human_organs.html http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/13/health/main558664.shtml
Indeed, the problem with CJD is that it's very, very difficult to detect. The only definitive test Ba knows is to do a biopsy of brain tissue. It's either filter blood donations to try to avoid potentially infected persons, or else mandate they have samples of brain tissue removed for testing. They seem paranoid, but consider how many people got AIDS through blood transfusions, when testing for the disease was still difficult. That was how Isaac Asimov died. If screening doesn't occur, this could potentially become an epidemic. It is a disease with terrible symptoms and no cure. Only one known of treatment that is not yet fully tested nor widely available. Yes, doctors may just have a reason for being paranoid.
This reminds me of an intertaining thread: http://www.terrypratchettbooks.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002772#000000
Yes, Ba, I know, but it still sucks not to be able to donate blood or organs when you're willing to especially when you see so many people who can and can't be bothered...
Ba knows. He also wishes to donate blood, and he is also not allowed. But they [i:4215b297c0]do[/i:4215b297c0] have good reasons for it. After all, an epidemic of tainted meat doesn't bear thinking about.
[quote:290628b02b="Katcal"]Yes, Ba, I know, but it still sucks not to be able to donate blood or organs when you're willing to especially when you see so many people who can and can't be bothered... [/quote:290628b02b] Maybe you'll be able to give blood soon?
There are a few things about CJD that I hadn't realised until I looked around the internet today: CJD has been around since at least the 1920s vCJD is the one that hit the media in the 1990s, affecting predominantly younger people http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/vcjd/ It is still going around! http://www.cjd.ed.ac.uk/figures.htm I couldn't find anything about a 'gestation period' (Not sure if that is the correct term. Quite worrying
[quote:4d894504e7="Electric_Man"][quote:4d894504e7="Katcal"]Yes, Ba, I know, but it still sucks not to be able to donate blood or organs when you're willing to especially when you see so many people who can and can't be bothered... [/quote:4d894504e7] Maybe you'll be able to give blood soon?[/quote:4d894504e7] I doubt it, even before that I got called a mad cow... :cooler:
[quote:834464ba8a="Katcal"][quote:834464ba8a="Electric_Man"][quote:834464ba8a="Katcal"]Yes, Ba, I know, but it still sucks not to be able to donate blood or organs when you're willing to especially when you see so many people who can and can't be bothered... [/quote:834464ba8a] Maybe you'll be able to give blood soon?[/quote:834464ba8a] I doubt it, even before that I got called a mad cow... :cooler:[/quote:834464ba8a] No that would've been rude... It was probably a mentally ill bovine.
[quote:1a31104fbc="Katcal"][quote:1a31104fbc="Electric_Man"][quote:1a31104fbc="Katcal"]Yes, Ba, I know, but it still sucks not to be able to donate blood or organs when you're willing to especially when you see so many people who can and can't be bothered... [/quote:1a31104fbc] Maybe you'll be able to give blood soon?[/quote:1a31104fbc] I doubt it, even before that I got called a mad cow... :cooler:[/quote:1a31104fbc] Maybe better than being a wet hen?
[quote:fea5e75efe="Katcal"][quote:fea5e75efe="Electric_Man"][quote:fea5e75efe="Katcal"]Yes, Ba, I know, but it still sucks not to be able to donate blood or organs when you're willing to especially when you see so many people who can and can't be bothered... [/quote:fea5e75efe] Maybe you'll be able to give blood soon?[/quote:fea5e75efe] I doubt it, even before that I got called a mad cow... :cooler:[/quote:fea5e75efe] Also, I doubt that anyone who visited England before 1996 will be allowed to donate.
Yep Roman, I doubt it too... The point is that if the meat was contaminated then then those who ate it may still develop the illness, and as Ba said, there's no way of detecting it until you're dead or start having symptoms... Who knows, maybe one day they'll find a way to detect it in a blood sample or something like that, but until then, we're stuck... But one thing seems silly to me... they don't ask if you've had a blood transfusion in england at any time (or at least, not that I know of...) 'cos anyone who gets a transfusion in England is at as much risk of getting CJD contaminated blood as they would be if british residents pre-95 were allowed to donate anywhere else... and besides, british beef was exported before that, so other contries may have just as much (or at least some) contamination... (and the whole thing started in the netherlands anyway and no one is forbidding the dutch to give blood) Also, do we know for sure it isn't hereditary, at least via the mother's placenta ? So that also rules out anyone who's mother spent more than 6 months in England before 96... basically, this whole thing is a mess... :roll:
[quote:5a07caa75b="Roman_K"]I plan to buried in the soil. In a graveyard. Probably with a tombstone on top. I'm unique. [/quote:5a07caa75b] Yep I do too! I'm originally from a country area and the tradition at home is burial and not cremation. - There are no facilities for cremation anywhere near my home town, to be honest I think broaching the subject of cremation would be pretty shocking to local people... Many of my work colleagues have had relatives who have been cremated but they are of predominantly Protestant religions - I think the feelings at home may be something to do with the fact that people don't like the idea of missing out on an Irish wake. They don’t however have any problems with organ donation – which is good!
[quote:040fcdf199="Rincewind"]This reminds me of an intertaining thread: http://www.terrypratchettbooks.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002772#000000[/quote:040fcdf199] Isn't that a dodgy thing to post in the current climate? [quote:040fcdf199="Ba"] They seem paranoid, but consider how many people got AIDS through blood transfusions, when testing for the disease was still difficult. That was how Isaac Asimov died. If screening doesn't occur, this could potentially become an epidemic. [/quote:040fcdf199] Ok, looking at the figures in the link I see there have been a lot more cases of CJD than I realised. But even so, can humans pass it to each other? As far as I know they don't. If I'm right, then an epidemic isn't going to be caused by unfortunate people getting it through blood transfusions. And whilst it's a horrible disease, is it really worth people dying to avoid even taking the risk? Couldn't they maybe keep potentially infected blood separately and give people the option or something? Besides, the British meat ban came after the disease (obviously), so really people absolutely anywhere could be affected: people in countries who bought the meat, people who visited said countries. And, dare I say it, people who just may have developed the disease through a completely different means, seeing as it's all so uncertain!
Yes, humans can. Quite easily, under the right circumstances. Such as blood transfusions. Or human growth hormone taken from cadavers infected with the disease. Or cannibalism. And yes, it is potentially inherited from mother to child. The thing is, they can't possibly screen out every person infected with CJD or HIV or what have you. All they can do is test it as best they can and screen out the most likely candidates. They aren't going to stop every single case of CJD. They know that. But they're going to stop as much as they can. CJD isn't just a bad disease. It's a very horrible way to die. It's worse than AIDS. AIDS, at least, doesn't take away one's mind first.
[quote:0ffe5713c0="Ba"]Or human growth hormone taken from cadavers infected with the disease.[/quote:0ffe5713c0] I don't know about this practice. Is this common? [quote:0ffe5713c0="Ba"]Or cannibalism.[/quote:0ffe5713c0] Well, there you go then. We're all in trouble! Although I shouldn't joke; that's how cows got it (cannibalism, not joking). I remain unconvinced. But then, there are good reasons why I'm not a doctor making executive decisions about a nation's wellfare.
Some links on prion diseases. http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/disease/prions.htm http://www1.umn.edu/eoh/hazards/hazardssite/prions/prionpathway.html http://www-micro.msb.le.ac.uk/3035/prions.html http://science-education.nih.gov/nihHTML/ose/snapshots/multimedia/ritn/prions/prions1.html http://www.samcef.org/pickeringCWDarticle.htm The key quotes here are [quote:850c5e421a]CWD prions that are shed onto the ground (from saliva, feces, urine or decomposed carcasses) are very stable and may provide a source of infection for years. [/quote:850c5e421a] [quote:850c5e421a] People become infected with prions in three ways: acquired, hereditary, sporadic mutation. Acquired Infection Kuru is a condition of the Fore tribe of the Okapa district of the Eastern Highland in Papua New Guinea. Prior to 1956, the Fore tribe had a ritual practice of cannibalism of fellow dead tribesmen. Kuru is a prion infection acquired by the eating of infected tissue. Women and children ate the brain tissue of dead tribal members. Men ate the muscle tissue. Kuru affected mainly adult women and children of both sexes resulting in an annual mortality rate of approximately 3% (1). A number of people have acquired iatrogenic CJD through the accidental exposure to prion-contaminated material during surgical procedures. Iatrogenic CJD has been transmitted from grafts of dura mater taken from patients with CJD, corneal transplants and instruments used in brain surgery. Over 100 people have acquired CJD from injections of human growth hormone [/quote:850c5e421a] [quote:850c5e421a]Prions enter brain cells and there convert the normal cell protein PrPC to the prion form of the protein, called PrPSC. When normal cell proteins transform into prions, amino acids that are folded tightly into alpha helical structures relax into looser beta sheets. More and more PrPC molecules transform into PrPSC molecules, until eventually prions completely clog the infected brain cells. The cells misfire, work poorly, or don't work at all. [/quote:850c5e421a]
[quote:fa6af60748="Hermia"][quote:fa6af60748="Rincewind"]This reminds me of an intertaining thread: http://www.terrypratchettbooks.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002772#000000[/quote:fa6af60748] Isn't that a dodgy thing to post in the current climate? [/quote:fa6af60748] I don't think so. The old board is part of our history, we can't and shouldn't deny that. There is no harm in referencing or linking to the old board, if we have relivant reason too. So long as people don't break the current non posting attitude I don't see how problems should arise.
