What do you get for the person who has nothing? Absolutely nothing. No hope, no dreams, no prospects. No education, no money, and no future. What's a good birthday or christmas present for someone who won't take charity, doesn't understand help, and scofs at compassion or sympathy? What do you get for the drop outs, the down and outs, the downtrodden, and the outcast?
Is this a question or a philisophical statement? Maby a desert island somwhere where he wont be bothered, ever. Who are we talking about, precisely?
Well, kudos to Smoking_GNU for at least approaching it in a remotely serrious way. Tell me, Dane and I suppose Tamyra as well, have you ever considered finding a community more targeted to your level of intellectual development?
Surely everyone hopes or dreams for something no matter how little they have or wish for, even if it's simply to stop being?
But the ceasation of existance... to most people that's something to be feared rather than sought, and the courts don't take a kind view to anyone who'd 'give' it, even to someone who desires it.
I wasn't suggesting that's what you could give, or even that that's what the person might wish for; just that they must dream about something? Anyway, I think it's usually the very simple things that people who have absolutely nothing like the most, like some way of expressing themselves to show they are worth something - often by merely talking to someone who'll listen for a bit.
It's a mistaken belief by those who live in gross comfort that others wish to live in comfort if they do not. take the recent hitchhiker's guide film. why does arthur need his house back AND a sumptious feast? the house and a cup of tea is all he needs, yet we must add a sheen of gluttony to it to justify our own comfort, by imposing it upon others. what do you get for the man who has nothing if you are someone who has everything? a chipped bowl?
(While Arthur Dent didn't ASK for the feast, he seemed to appreciate it as a gesture of goodwill. Plus, his travelling companions stuffed themselves silly - they certainly didn't think it was excessive or inappropriate). I feel for your friend. And I feel for Dane and Tamyra who appear to have inadvertendly caught you in a bad time, and got smacked for it. ... If you still take suggestions - how about organizing a group outing (to a concert, a hiking trip, a really super museum - basically anything above an ordinary walk-to-the-movies), and paying for your friend's tickets? You can make up a story about how you won them in a radio phone-in contest or something. This way - if anything - you can take them out of themselves for a while - so they have something else to think about besides' their lack of happiness. I hope that mades sense!
Garner,you must not be so quick to lash out. My suggestion was the perfect solution to your problem, no one doesn't need a decent pair of socks now and then, but no one would say they were too much to accept. Did you miss the Mirror of Erised reference? I don't think the person in question has nothing if they can refuse "help". If they can choose to live their lives on their own terms, they may have lots more then you recognize. Just because a person chooses not to follow mainstream society and jump through the hoops of academia and commerce, to keep up with the Joneses and the fashion police does not mean they are without purpose or value.
It depends on your goals with this person. If you feel an urge to get this person to 'better themselves' and try appropriate gifts be prepared for heartache. If you're fine with how things are, and just want to try and find a gift, then music. If they don't have a cd player, then get them one for the first present along with two or three of your favorite artists' cds. Subsequent gifts would be you sharing your admiration of an art form. On the loftier side, a person who is hopeless needs hope, but how can you give someone hope? Especially someone as irascible as the person being described. And, is the person truly hopeless? Isn't hope what keeps most people going?
Not much time, am on duty. Is this about euthanasia in general or about someone going through a bout of depression?
Your suggestion was flippant and immature. If you had explained your reasoning behind it at the time, it may have been a 'solution' but to go so far as to call it perfect is to adopt an egotistical high horse to justify and defend your flippancy. You'd been doing so well about not backpeddaling, but oh well. If I put forth a serrious question, be it concrete or abstract in its applications, it is a serrious question. If you reply with a one word answer that would only be acceptible when properly explained, then you MUST include that proper explaination or be subject to reprobation for an inappropriate response. In the case of Dane, I fear there is nothing that can be done but wait until he finds a better website more suited to his years. In your case, Tamyra, I realize that we just have different ways of thinking and this often causes some conflict. That, however, cannot and will not ever excuse you from the responsibilty to make sure that your point comes across as you intend it. The onus is not entirely, or even in most cases majorly, upon the reader to interpret the meaning. It's the writer. In this, you failed dismally, but thank you for explaining your meaning. I can see your point, even if it's still a bit flippant.
The key phrase here is 'no hope'. I've lived in Hastings, the armpit of England, for decades, and I know very well the kind of people you're talking about. (I don't mean to imply there that others here don't, by the way - only that I do.) From your point of view, someone might have absolutely nothing, but they might not see it that way. I think you've got at that point a little in later posts. There is always a sense of purpose, whatever your situation in life, until you have lost hope. For a person who is without hope, there are only two worthwile presents: death or the restoration of hope. I lived on the outskirts of London for a year when I was eighteen. At Christmas time, my family and I put together about twelve bags of stuff as Christmas stockings for homeless people. We went into central London and handed them out to homeless people living in doorways until they were all gone. Those people were all grateful - unlike our fearful middle class friends who thought it seemed condescending, they appreciated the gesture and were happy to use the things we gave them. Those things included socks. It's amazing how much better life is when you can keep your feet warm. That kind of ties in with the point about toast. Small, simple things make a hell of a difference when you have nothing. And learning to be content with simple things is a good life skill. Think of that guy in Hogfather, with the sausages. Anyway, I'm starting to ramble here, but my main point was that a bullet to the head is not such a silly suggestion for someone who wants it; but for someone who has nothing but hope, there's quite a lot you can do that will make them happy. It's harder to give something to someone who has everything. Also, for the record, I think you overreacted to Dane and Tamyra. It wasn't clear what you were looking for from your opening post, and you could have toned down your response to them. Tamyra, Garner hasn't read Harry Potter (yet), so he wouldn't have got the Mirror of Erised reference.
The best response I can think of is this: nothing...get him nothing He has no vision or prospect, he doesn't expect a gift. He doesn't want it, so why give it to him. I guess you could also say he has no reason for the gift either, it would be a pointless exercise not only because he doesn't want but because he is not awaiting it. Part of giving a gift is this idea of knowing it's comming. If someone is invited to dinner you expect them to bring a bunch of flowers/wine/dish/etc if its your birthday you expect gifts, even if you know you wont get them (in other words, if you are in the middle of the arctic ocean, alone, and its your birthday you know you can't get any gifts but you know you should be getting them) It's similar to the toast theory. If an englishman/woman comes along and is given a piece of buttered toast they are generally more excited than an elaborate plate of jams and spreads to coat the toast with (I know I would be). So if he has no dreams or hope...he does not have any inclination of want to recieve a gift. no future..this could be an exception, you could give him something to look for and thus give him a future. doesn't understand help...then helping him would mean nothing to him, he wouldn't use it to his advantage and make something of the help...it would be like trying to explain quantum to a hyper kid. scofs st compassion or sympathy - if he doesnt understand help then how can he understand compassion or sympathy and how can he scoff at it? If you want to get him something...get him something that wont look like charity... guess you could get him to do charity?
I think that the point about charity may show that this person does have one thing, and that's pride, however misguided and/or hidden, and if the only thing you have is pride, it must be very difficult to let go of! Even a Christmas or birthday present, when he cannot give you a present back at the appropriate time would be a blow to that pride. By the way, we seem to have been assuming this is a man, not a woman - you have never specifically stated this as far as I can see, although you did imply a man in the use of a stock phrase at one point.
To me, it sounds like you're dealing with someone who will turn down anything that resembles charity, and although you may trick him/her into not seeing it as such he/she will resent it on some level. If I'm getting the right impression, then even socks will only suggest to that person that you think they cannot adequately provide themselves with the most base of necessities. I don't know if this person is that proud, though. I think the only solution for that person would be to give him/her a "normal" gift, i.e. something you would give someone who is successful and something that is essentially useless. A cd, something that complements whatever he/she likes do in his/her free time.
Not me... Anyway, I still stand by what I said; you don't have to give people 'things' to make them happier, it's often 'things' or the lack of them that make people unhappy in the first place. I still think giving someone your time is the best you can do, you may even discover some things that they'd like to have while doing this.
Invite this person and others around for dinner... He can't see it as you giving him charity of a meal when there's others there to enjoy it too. Hospitality is one of the greatest gifts of all
Grace, thank you. Garner, I was definately not feeling flippant when I wrote "socks". I was actually feeling a bit depressed. I hope you don't resist reading the Harry Potter books too much longer. They aren't as deep as what you may prefer but they aren't totally lacking in what a good book should have. By the way the word is backpedaling, I deny it in this instance. Even if you didn't recognize the literary reference I was thinking of, you might have heard mention of the importance of socks in other circumstances. Personally I have been having a battle with my socks for the last year or so. Every time I start to feel I have a handle on my life I realize at least half my socks have disappeared leaving the other half useless to anyone but Pippi Longstocking or an amputee. I refuse to throw away some of those lone socks because I just know I'll find the mate someday, and I know I only wore the thing twice. It has become a symptom of how well I am managing and lately it hasn't been going that well. While I am not at the place were a bullet to the head would be on my want/need list, I have been affected by someone choosing that ticket off the rock. I have no doubt I would not be here if my maternal grandfather hadn't killed himself when my mom was a child. His hopelessness has cast a far shadow, I fear for my brothers and my nephews and my cousins, they all have been touched by depression to one degree or another. My female relatives seem to be stronger but we all have our problems. I am not the most downtrodden person on this planet, I feel very fortunate here in my trailer house, home after a 12 hour shift of manual labour to a furnace that is not working even after a $229.00 repair job. I feel fortunate that I only had to pay $22.40 for half a tank of gas for my 19 year-old Lincoln.(Yes, I feel a little tiny bit downtrodden right now.) I just found out that due to the warmer then normal weather at harvest, many of the potatoes are rotting away before our eyes and I will be having to put in many 12 hr shifts until after Christmas, when part of the plant will shut down for a major overhaul that will likely end up in me being laid off indefinately. And I am having a problem with chairs at work, but I'll tell that story someplace else. I have 9 more years to go before my home is paid for. The last time I was unemployed it took 3 years before I found a job. I am not looking forward to having to go through that process again. But at least I haven't been flooded out lately, My town hasn't been covered by a mudslide or been burned by wild fires. There isn't much likelihood of a tsunami affecting me here, and probably not too much more chance of an earthquake. There is still a little while before the cold weather gets here, even though the first snowflakes fell a couple of days ago, and I have had to scrape ice off my car windows twice. I got to spend a few hours with my sister,her family, both my brothers, both my parents, my nephew, and his family(including nine month old Connor), and six of our thirteen dogs, and I got to meet the new cat in the family yesterday. I didn't hit any deer on my way home( saw one though) and got home in time to watch some of Saturday Night Live. I talked to my husband via the miracle of cellphones and life was good. I hope you do spend some time with the person you were talking about. Time is the best thing we have to give anyone, I have just given you almost two hours, and now I want to call my husband and give him a little, too.
I don't really think it matters what you get them. Saying 'Its the thought that counts' sounds trite, but sometimes what they really need is to know that someone cares. I don't think there's really one object that will change their outlook in life (except maybe a winning lottery ticket, but thats just me assuming you need money to be happy) but it's amazing how having a friend can bring you up...knowing that someone likes you for you is a great self-esteem booster for someone who doesn't like themselves. But I might avoid the night out with the friends, if its people he or she doesn't know, and will not feel comfortable around. An everning in watching TV can be as great as a night out.
