So this is what my partner woke me up to tell me this morning, which is a bad way to start the day in anyone's book. We had a similar carnage just over 10 years back when a looney killed 32 in Port Arthur, Tasmania. He didn't kill himself in the end and is now having a life of leisure in some claustrophobic conditions. However, Australia's already pretty tight gin laws were restricrted even further. My concern is that even this won't get the US to get rid of its guns. The news said that 1 in 3 Americans owns a gun. Considering that 1 in 10 people suffer from some form of mental illness this is not good odds.
I first heard about it while I was at work, apparently the first shootings happened two hours before the last, I haven't heard if the shooter was killed or caught. This will not stop gun ownership. Dr. Phil is blaming videogames and glamourizing violence in movies. It won't stop that either. Just a couple of days ago a 17 year old girl had a baby,she had concealed her pregnancy from her family and friends, when she delivered the baby girl she panicked and stabbed the newborn over a hundred times. The state and city she lives in has a policy of not prosecuting anyone who turns in a newborn to a hospital, it is well known that you can give up a baby no questions asked but she still chose to deny that baby's existence and her life. The only hope for this is people learning to love one another, it has been two thousand years since we were told that and we still don't have it right. We don't even know how to love ourselves anymore. I don't have enough tears for the sorrow I feel today.
There has been a lot of concern in the UK about this gun culture developing there. SPiky's right...it wont change America's mind about guns. It's amazes me that people still think they're a good thing to have around the house....sure they can protect but more often than not they kills as well.
:shock: Anyways, what happened is terrible and not only ought guns (and other assorted weaponry) be restriced by laws but someone should figure out what makes a person go in a shoot other people in schools. When they've done that they can come up with a solution to prevent this (and hopefully that solution won't be anything as stupid as 'put gates on schools' or 'put everyone through metal dectector tests')
We've had guns for many more years than we've had these school shootings. They are part of the problem, but there is something that's been added in somewhere. A writer on Livejournal wrote this about the shootings: Elegy for April Sixteenth, In Virginia They are all dead. There once was some poor wretch Who wandered these halls homeless save for what They call a home -- four walls, perhaps a bed Perhaps a television, dresser, watch Strewn on the bedside table. He slept here Who now is dead. But not alone in death; This bastard son of commonwealth who took Up arms because his head was full of fear -- And now they all are dead. Whose bloody hands Once held a pen and book, then carried death To those who hardly tasted life, whose hands Are these? A monstrous visage stands With badge and weapon shaking his sad head. The list grows longer and their parents ask To know -- does my child live? Where is my child Who never knew the world? Is my child dead? Where is my child? The rising tide of fear Will drown their eyes. He killed them all and now He too is dead. And they ask all for what? For fear. Surely the devil must be here. No human being could take one single steel And chemical contraption in his hands And with it make the country weep. Not one sole man could enter these bright halls And dim them instantly. Oh but these books These lecture-halls, professors, and these desks Were safe. This was a place of learning, safe Until the fall. Who is so lost that looks Over the tape and says, I knew that one? Who is so lost that cries out for their child? Who watches from a distance and who weeps? So many dead. And all because a son Of some poor god-damned mother sideways fell And rampaged at the world that would have helped If they had known. If he had only said -- That bathed their lives in red. This must be hell. All dead. All senseless, comfortless and bare Pain flayed too open. Christ, what happened here. Torment on pain. What can words do? Words can Do nothing. There will be no solace here. They are all dead, and he is dead, and so There must be mourning. Must be anger for What happened here. There will be cries of pain And scars and tremors. So the world must go. The world is wrong, and setting it to rights Is not the work of days or months but years. This is no time to talk of dawning lights That still must come again. No, not tonight When children have been slain. Go comfort those -- The parents still and pale, the shaking friends Who cannot see why they survive, when all Around are gone. Don't ask why -- no-one knows. Our love with you, for you, our helpless hands For you. Remember that our love is here And do not slip you sideways into hell. Our love is here.
It's so tragic I can't think of anything intelligent to say to express what I feel. So just for once I'll shut up. This should be as good a way as any of showing how sad I feel.
Getting rid of guns would not bring an end to violent crime, but it would certainly reduce the fatalities. It's so sad to hear of another tragedy like this. Roisin, thanks for posting the poem. It expressed a lot of how I felt.
... On the subject of guns though, that kid could have just as likely obtained his piece illegally. By the way, this is one of MANY mass shootings that happened in the past year or so, although this one had by far the most casualties. Before that, there were at least 2 mall shootings and at least 3 workplace shootings (I'm counting down from last summer). And every time, the gunman ended up dead - either by turning the gun on himself or shot down by the police. What did those guys have in common? Well, um, they were all angry - either at their bosses for firing them, or at their business partners for (supposedly) two-timing them, or at the rest of the world for ignoring them while they were alone and unhappy. Buuuut... still no clue on what separated those individuals from all the other mobs of unhappy/lonely/angry people who do NOT pick up a gun and decide to take as many strangers down with them as they can.
The US won't get rid of their right to bear arms, I heard a guy on the radio today saying that if it was LEGAL to carry guns in schools then this tragedy wouldn't have happened. Beats me!!!
I'm not saying that tighter gun* controls will solve the problem but it sure does help... Although the uni shootings in America are tragic, Australia still holds the record for the worst mass killing by a single individual with 35 people murdered in Port Arthur. Here are some statistics from the results of increasing gun controls after that event. Its not that there aren't disillusioned looneys in the world, but everyone should have to wait a damn good long time before they can get their hands on a gun. Its amazing what a waiting period will do to calm people down and not go on a rage-induced rampage because they happen to have a gun lying around and won't it solve all my problems... And I know this isn't a view held in America, its apparently your right to bear arms. the problem with this philosophy is that its everyones right to bear arms, which means that all these normal everyday folk are scared that those scary dangerous folk have a gun so they need a gun too to protect themselves. But normal everyday folk can be scary and dangerous too and gee wizz they've got a gun. Hooray! What a wonderful god-lovin' day it is! *Gun not gin. I am completely against any restrictions on alcohol, even alcohol I don't like. And I think gin is disgusting but its my god-given right to own it and inflict on other people.
I'll get rid of my gun if whoever takes it will chase the coyotes away from the horses and dispose of the rabid animals that wander into my family's yard. (edit- Yes, even I find these scenarios amusing. Especially since they're true)
The people who believe this would have been stopped if we all carried guns believe this because it would mean that *someone would have been able to do something about it*. That simple, it isn't as stupid as you make it sound, Stercus. I am in favour of waiting periods for gun ownership, and I'm generally a pacifist (bad at it, but I try hard) but I think the sense of the "right to bear arms" has been a bit misconstrued. It isn't about defending ourselves against intruders and whatnot. It goes along with having a standing militia- its there so we can take over the government if necessary. I like that that's codified into our law, as crazy as that may be in practice.
As part of getting a gun in Australia there is a police check which would have found the guy had stalked 3 girls already meaning they wouldn't of let him have one. I've always wondered about the standing militia thing... So whats the difference between a standing militia that can overthrow the government if needed and a terrorist organisation?
Were criminal charges actually filed, and was he convicted? In one instance, the woman didn't press charges, and the issue sat with the university's judicial affairs office. In the next instance, while the police were investigating him a tip came in that he might be suicidal. He went to a mental assessment group, but for whatever reason , the information that he was deemed a danger to himself did not get to the VA State police (even though VA is a commonwealth) since he passed his background check a month ago. Here Here The US was built with the firearm, I'd be interested to learn about the Aussies and Canadians... How much did violent revolution affect our culture... A militia fights as a military force, by controlling terrain and stopping the enemy from being effective. Terrorists fight by instilling terror into a populace. A militia can, of course, commit acts of terror, as an army can... Also, one other reason given for the ability to bear arms is that if the country were overrun it would be very difficult for occupiers to administer for a while. A Mexican standoff would have been much preferable to 33 dead. But, that probably wouldn't have happened. One or the other would have shot first, or if more than one student/professor was armed,it wouldn't have mattered.
The fact is, tragedies like these have absolutely no bearing on the issue of gun control. None, whatsoever. This was the work of a madman. And unfortunately, there's nothing that can be done against this sort of person. They will always find some way. This is not the worst school massacre in US history. In 1927, a man killed 45 people at a school in Bath Township, Maine. Most of them were children in the second to sixth grades. He didn't use a gun, though. He used explosives. Look at the Oklahoma City Bombing. Look at the Unabomber. Look at numerous other madmen. Making it harder for them to buy guns will only have them looking in other directions. And that assumes you can keep them from getting access. The mayor of Nagasaki was shot yesterday. This is in a country with some of the tightest gun control laws in the world, including a complete ban on handguns. Ba actually tends to lean in favor of tighter gun control, personally. But what happened in Virginia Tech doesn't really support either side.
I agree totally with Ba's points. These people will find illegle guns where they can. People with the legal ones are checked on a regular basis over here. My stepdad had 4 shot guns and 3 hand guns, including a semi automatic Baretta he was very proud of. I helped him clean them and went shooting with him, clay pidgeons, targets, rabbits etc. He was required to have a gun safe within a locked, alarmed, security coded cupboard. This had to be in an unexpected place in the house and not on view. He had a licence, Mom had a licence and i was named on hers so i was allowed to shoot. He was not the most rational man on the planet but it never entered his head to say sleep with a pistol by the bed or to take a gun to the burglar he caught running out of his neighbours house. Nutters are everywhere, there will always be a black market, there will always be greedy people prepared to supply nutters with anything. I also agree with tighter US gun laws, but that wont change things like this happening. This thing will carry on because there are not enough people in authority to stop it. Laws can only be up held if there are people to do it.
I agree with you, Ba. As I said before: There will always be violent people, especially in a 'civilisation' like the one we've built. Better gun control is simply a form of damage mitigation, in my view. Brad, I completely agree that a Mexican stand-off is better than 33 dead. But I do not, in fact, think that more people at Virginia Tech having guns would have prevented this guy from killing.
I honestly believe that arming more/many people within Virginia Tech would not have made a positive difference in the outcome of the event. People panic, adding guns to the mix may well have resulted in many more people getting shot. Besides, how would the police when they arrived at the scene work out the difference between a crazed gunman shooting at people and law abiding citizens shooting back at him in defense in defense?
I agree with people having the right to arms. Thats fair comment. I don't think those people should go round being as bad as the insane shooters though. As i said before, we should leave that up to the people in charge. Just cos there arn't enough of them does not mean more ordinary people should have the inclination to kill mad men. Even though they might want to.
I agree. Even if everyone there had a handgun, people still would have died. Heck, to steal a thought from Ba, the shooter may even have used different means (rifle /scope from a rooftop, or explosives) if it was common knowledge that many people were armed.
I read A really interesting article on this the other day. It was written by the author of a book called "We need to talk about Kevin" Which is about a school shooting (and very good too.) I'm going to massively paraphrase here and her views where much better expressed than my attempts. But she was talking about the media attention that such stories generate, and how thats whats part of what drives these children to do what they do. Loners who want to be noticed...and understood. It's almost as though they want to tell the world they exist, that they can make an impact. That even post-humous infamy is better than living in obscuritity.
