Night Watch

Discussion in 'THE WATCH BOOKS' started by monkeyman3000, Sep 28, 2005.

  1. monkeyman3000 New Member

    i am new and i felt like posting a topic so who likes the book Night Watch it was the first book i ever read of terry pratchetts and to be honest it was one of the first books i have read in many many years.
  2. Tephlon Active Member

    I'm rereading it as we speak.
    It's one of my favorites, as are most of the Watch books.

    Carcer still freaks me out. (I'm reading the scene on top of the library now. )
  3. janible New Member

    Carcer is one of the best villains Terry has come up with! Total sociopath!
  4. Plugger New Member

    him and his knives, who'd have guessed 3, i just couldnt help noticing the similarities between night watch and the new tv series Life on mars...
  5. Ineffable New Member

    There are so many little nuances of Night Watch that you don't get the first time around! My favourite passage is still:

    "Vimes had spent his life on the streets and had met decent men and fools, and people who'd steal a penny from a blind beggar, and people who performed silent miracles or desperate crimes every day behind the grubby windows of little houses, but he'd never met The People.

    People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed in any case. The found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient. The People tended to be small-minded and conservative and not very clever and were even distrustful of cleverness. And so, the children of the revolution were faced with the age-old problem: it wasn't that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of people.

    As soon as you saw people as things to be measured, they didn't measure up."

    It's clever, it's funny, it's insightful and it's inspiring. Pure Pratchett. :)
  6. janible New Member

    This is one of the reasons to read and reread his novels! He is one of the authors that brings you back so that you can savor his ideas and the ways that he expresses them. All that and humor, too!

    "As soon as you saw people as things to be measured, they didn't measure up." His criticism isn't for the general populace, with all their good and bad points. The criticism really is against the mindset that says "I am apart and above those others, who are 'things' to be measured."

    It reminds me of some of his other books, such as Interesting Times. Rincewind observes that the young revolutionaries have been saying that the people will rule equally. He comments that, in fact, won't the young revolutionaries do the ruling when the "people" take over?

    Brief aside: I wish I could find my copy of Interesting Times to find that passage. We've moved and it's still in a box somewhere!
  7. Sir_Vaims New Member

    Night Watch! The masterhood of Terry consists of mocking the French Revolution without forgeting the hard boiled egg! :)
  8. kormaciek New Member

    What is all about this hard boiled egg? I'm also reading NW now.
  9. Sir_Gawain New Member

    Not quite hard-boiled. Still a bit soft in the middle. And John Keel's hard-boiled egg, kormaciek. If you don't remember that, shame on you, and if you're on a thread before you finish the book, why?

    I... like Carcer. I'm not sure why. I just like him. Maybe because he reminds me a bit of me. Always have another knife. But don't worry, everyone. I do have a conscious.

    And I hate what he did to the egg. That was Keel's egg.
  10. I completly agree. Friends of mine laugh as i am constantly reading a Pratchett book on the train to and from work. As soon as one is finished its on to the next. I keep circulating the 30+ books until a new one is published.

    I have read Guards! Guards! so many times but it still hasnt lost any of the humour. Plus as i got older i found more an more subtle jokes that had passed me by years before!

    Absolute genius
  11. Sir_Vaims New Member

    i absolutely agree. And yeah-a man's boiled egg shoul be a sacred thing. But Keel got even at the end-Carcer was carried away as a stack of hay
  12. LaughingFire New Member

    That's conscience, Gawain. ( :cooler: I'm such a bad sister) And no, you don't.

    It's not just the French Revolution, tho'. We've been going over Marx in History this week and honestly he sometimes sounds just like Reg. Except smarter, it must be allowed. Sigh...pretty idea, but....
  13. Sir_Vaims New Member

    Marx's idea of the communist society was an utopy(like a dream). For him the communist society would be a place with no social classes,no rules and where the State would interfiere as litle as possible. But Lenine and Stalin created a monster out of that idea.
  14. Hsing Moderator

    Yes... I suppose that can happen to any idea in the hands of monsters... Although a lot of idea start out monstrous all by themselves. What makes Marx' still interesting today is, I think, his often accurate analysis of many aspects our current system still has today.
    :) Interesting to see where we are disgressing to...
  15. LaughingFire New Member

    Yes, it is, Hsing.

    Yeah...Marx was a pretty sharp analyst about some things; like People Are Both Living And Dying Miserably and This Is Bad, and Something Has to Snap, but he was an optimist about human nature. Not everyone is good. Just because you have suffered something doesn't mean you won't inflict the same thing on another, and the idea that no one who had been oppressed would be willing to become an oppressor was a cornerstone of his ideal. Look at the high incidence of the abused turning abusers.

    Other things than cream rise to the top.
  16. Sir_Gawain New Member

    Do too! Just not as big a one as the average person... :roll: You have to correct me even on a message board, don't you? Hmph. Big sisters.

    Very true. I know for a fact that shit floats.
  17. Sir_Vaims New Member

    I am missing something here. If it's not rude i would like to ask if Sir Gawain and Laughingfire are relatives.
    And yeah-shit happens and they float!
  18. Sir_Gawain New Member

    You're right, Sir Vaims. LaughingFire and myself happen to be sisters. How ever did you guess? :lol:
  19. LaughingFire New Member

    Well, I said it.

    Hmm...getting back to Night Watch, I love the way we get to see Havelock while he's still at the Guild. (So reminiscent of the traditional British prep school.) Invisible = excellent. Any theories about why his auntie wears purple? Apart from it makes a fine distraction from what she actually looks like.
  20. Sir_Vaims New Member

    Intuition! i like the understanding of Havelock-he prefers to be out of fashion wearing dark but not black clothes than to be stylish and a corpse
  21. LaughingFire New Member

    Yeah...and the good bit is that he'd be expelled from the Guild if he were seen dressed like that but since the whole point is not to be seen it doesn't matter. :p
  22. Sir_Vaims New Member

    and Havelock is very good in the whole pointy thing! :)
  23. LaughingFire New Member

    ...good in the whole pointy thing? Er...yeah, he's good with pointy things! :)
  24. Sir_Vaims New Member

    I meant that he is good at not beeing seen,but i probably got it all wrong. :(
    But you are absolutely right. :)
  25. Angua_rox New Member

    Maybe his aunt has a royalty complex/is minor aristocracy? And obviously to hide herself as well. I love the whole "he instinctively felt that if one must fondle a cat while planning it should not be a ginger tom prone to flatulence". . . inspired! Take that Blofeld! (sorry that my quote is probably inaccurate but in my defence it's from memory and I haven't read/reread the book in months! :) )
  26. Angua_rox New Member

    May i just point out that while i too am new and feel like posting random topics asking, while on a terry pratchett fan site (kinda) who likes his books is a bit like asking all your friends who breathes oxygen/wears clothes?
    p.s. please note the latter example does not apply to those who live in nudist colonies!
    pps However you are quite right the Night Watch kicks ass :lol:
  27. Katcal I Aten't French !

    Oh, I dunno, I've seen people here say they don't like, or like a little less some of the books, everyone's different, and this isn't so much a sit for flat out fan-drooling-worship-of-everything-Pterry, as a place to exchange opinions... May the doormen place my figgin upon a spike if I'm wrong ;)
  28. Hsing Moderator

    No, I think Katcal's right about that, although Night Watch was one of those cases where I don't remember anyone disliking the book (or liking it less than about 25 other DW books, for example).
  29. Rincewind Number One Doorman

    Did someone say, monsterous regiment?
  30. Hsing Moderator

    I liked it! :(
  31. Katcal I Aten't French !

    So did I, Rinso doesn't like girls, that's all... :cooler:
  32. Angua_rox New Member

    Ah ok. I'm pretty much a full blown fan-drooling-worship-of-everything-Pterry myself, but fair enough. And Monstrous Regiment was like one of the best ever!!! :shock: Rncewind needs to appreciate the true value of femininity . . . .(blathers on about the sacred feminine etc). :lol: :lol:
  33. Katcal I Aten't French !

    Well, same here actually, but I do get that other people aren't
    You mean getting his legs and bikini line waxed and then having to walk round London in a miniskirt and heels ? That sounds fun :D
  34. Angua_rox New Member

    Yes!! All males should have to undergo a rite of passage when they hit puberty or something so they don't become arrogant little appearance fixated things, where they get their legs waxed (or / and a brazilian) and are forced to wear tights.
    Or maybe not, but it's funny to think about. . . :evil: :lol:
  35. Rincewind Number One Doorman

    Pfft, Only Women like MR. I can only suspect this is becuase you all have brains make of either Cake or Small Fuffy Kittens
  36. Katcal I Aten't French !

    CAKE !!!!
  37. Angua_rox New Member

    I actually hate pictures of small fluffy kittens. However cake sounds good!
    Are MR male rituals presumably?
  38. Katcal I Aten't French !

    No, he's talking about Martin Riggs from Leathal Weapon, you know, Mel Gibson, before he started thinking about things... Girls like him, I guess it's the shower scene at the beginning... :cooler:

    (Monstruous Regiment ;) )
  39. Rincewind Number One Doorman


    No, Wait....


  40. Katcal I Aten't French !

    Spoons ? :D

    Ok, Martin Riggs with a Spoon. or a Spork...

  41. DeWorde New Member

    Night Watch is a fantastic book and has become one of my Discworld favourites over time.I agree with everyones general opinion on Carcer but dont you find Captain Swing just as disturbing in a slightly more insidious fashion?I also love Terry's take on the weapons law Swing institutes and the way he reflects the opinion on our own litle part of Roundworld,but as we know,Discworld is a world and a mirror of worlds. :)
    I also noticed the themetic plot similarity between Night Watch and Life On Mars and enjoyed the series because of this.
    I must mention that I love the full unabridged audio book of Night Watch & think Stephen Briggs does a fantastic job of narrating it.I'm proud to say I bought this at The Cunning Artificer in Wincanton,an adopted spiritual home of mine now! :),along with a Pyramids T Shirt and copy of Hatful Of Sky.
    Yep,I'm a Pratchett nut and proud! :)
  42. janible New Member

    Stephen's reading of Night Watch is just great! His voices fit the characters, as they appear in my mind!

    My husband and I agree with you about Captain Swing. Carcer is such a blatant sociopath, but Swing has had his counterparts in our world who have made life really ghastly! "Insidious" is the right word because people like that have an unfortunate ability to slide into government positions, in a sneaky, weaselly way. (If there isn't such a word as "weaselly", there should be!)
  43. Katcal I Aten't French !

    Oh no, not Insidious. That's what Nobby's mum says he is !
  44. DeWorde New Member

    Not only is nobby insidious he is also armgerious,and naturally to boot :)

    I agree with you but thats one of the reasons I like Tery so much.His sharp observance of our world reflected in the disc.Another piece of grim subtle humour I like is his references to assassinating the patrician and using the analogy of ancient tribal times with the cutting remark at the end "Of course that was a long time ago.These days no one has to eat beans".
    Very dark and funny which sums up Night Watch perfectly.
  45. tanatie New Member

    nightwatch is my (probably) favorite discworld book so far (although I must add that thud! has my favorite line in the part where Vimes is in that cave and he sees Death so Death has a near-Vimes experience and brings a book :lol: ) but I'm glad I read almost all of the others before's nice to have a really good grasp of the characters and then find out what they were like when they were younger...all throughout the books the characters are really developing (Vimes turns from a drunk to a married duke with a kid etc.) and then T.P. gives us a book that takes us to the begining...I liked the idea of Vetinari as a young assasin learning himself to be just fits him so perfectly...

    I'm a discworld fanatic too or a Terry Pratchett one when I think about it, but there are four books I didn't like as much: The Colour of Magic & The Light Fantasic (because I had the feeling that T.P. didn't really have a clear image of characters yet and also that his writing style wasn't as polished as it is today...I would probably like them better if I started the series with them though), Last Continent (it just leaves me puzzled about so many things...I just didn't know what was going on through half of the book the first time I read it) and Monstrous Regiment (it's really improbably to me that everybody would be a woman faking to be a man...)
    Although I must say I loved those four books a lot more than 99% of any other book written by any other my opinion the only other two authors who can be compared to T.P. are Douglas Adams and George R.R. least the modern ones...Tolkien has the same quality too...if Terry Pratchett (or the other four writers) wrote a guide about how to fill out your incredibly boring tax papers it would be still be written so well that you would just be dragged into it...the writing is just harmonious no matter what they write...
  46. Sunna New Member

    I'm sure not even TP could make taxes interesting
  47. Buzzfloyd Spelling Bee

    Actually, I bet you'd be surprised how many interesting facts and stories there are about taxation. When I was training to be an accountant, tax was my favourite subject because, along with law, it was the most interesting.
  48. BadEarthMum New Member

    Nightwatch - what can I say it's probably the best of all the Discworld books. I just love it, have read it so many times that I'm now on my seond copy of the book. Sam Vimes is my favourite character. He manages to remain a good man in a world that is determined to make him bad. I have to say that I have just reread Thud again, and am now going right back to the beginning and will be reading Guards Guards again where my love affair with Sam Vimes began!
  49. Alfonz New Member

    i want to know where pratchett came up with the idea for the "all the little angels" song. and it would be nice to have a full length version of it.
  50. Hsing Moderator

  51. Sunna New Member

    BadEarthMum,I feel the same way about Sam......if only we could find men like him

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